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One Tribe One Country

El Jefe said:
so if I see one village kicking the crap out of another village on the news, I'm not entitled to think "that's a bit rum" without being accused of arrogance?
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Can you tell me where I said that? :confused:

You don't presume to tell them how to run their country though do you?
 
yeah, I think my Original post was clumsy, it does seem to hav cunjured up images completely different to what i percieved.



But, Surely all artificial states have got to die, China, Indonesia, I know loads of people who want to leave those countries.:(

(as in break away and form independant nations).
 
Semantics Lesson: what we are calling in Africa, "tribes" would be in other continents be called "nationalities" or "ethnic groups". Nothing stone-Age about it.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
I actually like Khadaffi's suggestion the other day to make Africa an extended alliance like the EU or the NAFTA. It would put Africans in charge of Africa. (Not that I want Khadaffi leading it, which is his ultimate goal.)
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Yeah, if they could create a power bloc that would certainly help them out.

In the end, if the peoples of various African countries want to peacefully and amicably self-determine, fair play. If they want to violently self-determine against oppressive rulers, fair play. I think what would be best for Africa is letting Africa work it out, without political or economic interference from us as much as possible.
 
THINK! said:
Semantics Lesson: what we are calling in Africa, "tribes" would be in other continents be called "nationalities" or "ethnic groups". Nothing stone-Age about it.
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Doesn't change the fact that your idea is a load of old toss. You're advocating that all 'artificial' states should die. This is the majority of countries, including U.S.A which was built on immigration. Just because people don't get on with each other it doesn't mean we should all retreat to our so called homelands, instead we should work on these problems rather than run away from them. I think it would be an incredibly sad day if that ever happened. People wanna leave countries for all sorts of different reasons, despite how prosperous it might be there's always something that will make you feel aggrieved and want to leave.

Most ethnic conflict is born out of scapegoating for problems which run much deeper, ie caused by the current system. These are things that are far more important to address. Your idea will not end conflict because they'll be wars between different countries etc.
 
bluestreak said:
Yeah, if they could create a power bloc that would certainly help them out.

In the end, if the peoples of various African countries want to peacefully and amicably self-determine, fair play. If they want to violently self-determine against oppressive rulers, fair play. I think what would be best for Africa is letting Africa work it out, without political or economic interference from us as much as possible.
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Right. I think they'll continue to fight it out for a couple more generations. Eventually they'll work it out if left alone to do so. I don't know why everyone expects Africa to be different than anyone else. How long did Europe engage in infighting (and not that long ago)?
 
ex. Yuraba people of Nigeria and benin about 30 million people. they are not little tribal families hiding in the Jungle they are bloody nations!
 
Smoky said:
Doesn't change the fact that your idea is a load of old toss. You're advocating that all 'artificial' states should die. This is the majority of countries, including U.S.A which was built on immigration. Just because people don't get on with each other it doesn't mean we should all retreat to our so called homelands, instead we should work on these problems rather than run away from them. I think it would be an incredibly sad day if that ever happened. People wanna leave countries for all sorts of different reasons, despite how prosperous it might be there's always something that will make you feel aggrieved and want to leave.

Most ethnic conflict is born out of scapegoating for problems which run much deeper, ie caused by the current system. These are things that are far more important to address. Your idea will not end conflict because they'll be wars between different countries etc.
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Do you support Tibetan independence?
 
Smoky said:
Doesn't change the fact that your idea is a load of old toss. You're advocating that all 'artificial' states should die. This is the majority of countries, including U.S.A which was built on immigration. Just because people don't get on with each other it doesn't mean we should all retreat to our so called homelands, instead we should work on these problems rather than run away from them. I think it would be an incredibly sad day if that ever happened. People wanna leave countries for all sorts of different reasons, despite how prosperous it might be there's always something that will make you feel aggrieved and want to leave.

Most ethnic conflict is born out of scapegoating for problems which run much deeper, ie caused by the current system. These are things that are far more important to address. Your idea will not end conflict because they'll be wars between different countries etc.
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^This.

I think that having one country/one tribe will increase conflict. It makes it much easier to say "blame them, those different people, on the other side of the border" than it is someone who lives next door.
 
THINK! said:
ex. Yuraba people of Nigeria and benin about 30 million people. they are not little tribal families hiding in the Jungle they are bloody nations!
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Did they traditionally have their own land or did they mingle with other groups?
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
Right. I think they'll continue to fight it out for a couple more generations. Eventually they'll work it out if left alone to do so. I don't know why everyone expects Africa to be different than anyone else. How long did Europe engage in infighting (and not that long ago)?
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Exactly.
 
N_igma said:
Did they traditionally have their own land or did they mingle with other groups?
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I think Benin is almost entirely Yuraba and the rest liv in Western Nigeria in an area that's been Yuraba for hundreds maybe thousnads of years they wer under british rule for about only 60 years.


If I am right, the Igbo people did try to break away in the sixties but wer forcibily suppressed and subugated by the Nigerian government. so they had the same idea as me and so do the Tibetans.
 
I've not read all of this but what about people who are of mixed ethnicity, doesn't that present a rather serious problem for the theory?
 
THINK! said:
Every tribe has a traditional homeland, often extremly well defined.
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What about nomads?

Seriously, novel idea but what about if people want to define themselves by their religion, rather than their ethnicity. and as I've said, what about people of mixed ethnicity and nationality?

Someone mentioned Somalia, which is a pretty good point. Arguably I suppos you could say that if every clan had their own land - no problem but that doesn't stop clans attacking other clans. I give you an example: the Somalia clan (Bajuni) that live in the Somali islands near Kenya. Yeah they'd probably love it if the other clans left them alone, but the other clans don't do that, do they? No, they keep coming and looting, raping and trying to drive them out

So yeah, even if my tribe has some land, and your tribe has some land, what's to stop me attacking your land if I want to?
 
winterinmoscow said:
What about nomads?

Seriously, novel idea but what about if people want to define themselves by their religion, rather than their ethnicity. and as I've said, what about people of mixed ethnicity and nationality?

Someone mentioned Somalia, which is a pretty good point. Arguably I suppos you could say that if every clan had their own land - no problem but that doesn't stop clans attacking other clans. I give you an example: the Somalia clan (Bajuni) that live in the Somali islands near Kenya. Yeah they'd probably love it if the other clans left them alone, but the other clans don't do that, do they? No, they keep coming and looting, raping and trying to drive them out

So yeah, even if my tribe has some land, and your tribe has some land, what's to stop me attacking your land if I want to?
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What about fucking Nomads? I'm sure there are Nomads in Tibet, but it is still a viable state. Turkey has nomads, i'v met them, does that mean Turkey isn't a viable state, the Nomads were still Turkish!:rolleyes:
 
what do people feel about the western part of New Guinea being ruled by Indonesia? wouldn't they be better off with their Brothers in the Eastern Half (Papua New Guinea) ina united Papuan state rather than being oppressed by the Indonesian state?
 
THINK! said:
What about fucking Nomads? I'm sure there are Nomads in Tibet, but it is still a viable state. Turkey has nomads, i'v met them, does that mean Turkey isn't a viable state, they're still Turkish!:rolleyes:
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Do you have to swear? I am trying to engage you in some sort of discussion here, which considering your opening post was what you wanted.

The point is..... nomads may cross borders. Now if you want every country to be ethnically homogenous, don't you think it may cause an issue if some of the population are not ethnically the same

Secondly, Kuwait has deprived the ethnic Bidoon population of citizenship or ID documents in the hope of driving them somewhere else. Arguably this is in the hope of making Kuwait for Kuwaitis. Has it worked? Not really. They just have a massive problem with stateless Bidoons.

I note you still haven't answered my point on dual ethnicity or addressed the point made by myself and others about this not stopping the problem of tribes/ethnic groups etc etc attakcing others.
 
THINK! said:
what do people feel about the western part of New Guinea being ruled by Indonesia? wouldn't they be better off with their Brothers in the Eastern Half (Papua New Guinea) ina united Papuan state rather than being oppressed by the Indonesian state?
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What do they want to be?
 
I don't think you can assume that every member of a particular ethic group will want the same. There are many Ukrainians who would prefer to be part of Russia, despite Ukraine now being an independent nation.

Some Scots want independence, others don't.

Some Congolese want DRC to split along ethnic lines, others really don't
 
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