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One State Solution

bendeus said:
Sorry, Mears. Whose behavior? What behaviour?

Is that the best you can do?

The behavior of Arab states.

I can criticize Israel for its behavior via the Palestinians, particularly the economic policies that have helped impoverish Palestinians. I can criticize Palestinians for running suicide bombers against Israel. I can criticize the west for its failure to help the parties reach peace. I can criticize Muslim countries for treating Palestinians like pawns in a larger game.

Everyone deserves some fault for this debacle, right?
 
mears said:
The behavior of Arab states.

I can criticize Israel for its behavior via the Palestinians, particularly the economic policies that have helped inpoverish Palestinians. I can criticize Palestinians for running suicide bombers against Israel. I can criticize the west for its failure to help the parties reach peace. I can criticize Muslim countries for treating Palestinians like pawns in a larger game.

Everyone deserves some fault for this debacle, right?

So, how is the behaviour or Arab states any more reprehensible than the behaviour of any other state when faced with a major refugee problem knocking at their door?
 
bendeus said:
Didn't you say that the armed forces of the Palestinians would go around massacring every Israeli?

Why would they do that?

I don't think they would need a reason, Hamas militias didn't need much of one to start executing Fatah members, but I imagine the justification would be the 'brutal occupation' of the last 59 years.
 
warren said:
I don't think they would need a reason, Hamas militias didn't need much of one to start executing Fatah members, but I imagine the justification would be the 'brutal occupation' of the last 59 years.

You don't think....


You imagine...

:rolleyes:

Permit me to continue with my previous opinions.....
 
warren said:
I don't think they would need a reason

So we're back to your favourite interpretation of Arabs as intrinsically bloodthirsty, or tribal, or something?

Time very soon for you just to come out and say you are racist, I think.
 
bendeus said:
So, how is the behaviour or Arab states any more reprehensible than the behaviour of any other state when faced with a major refugee problem knocking at their door?

In this instance the Palestinians have been there for many years. Hopes of their return home in the near future is not realistic. They face discrimination in the countries they currently reside in.

Is it more reprehensible than other states taking in refugees, I guess it depends on the circumstances. But that in no way excuses the poor treatment in their host countries.

In reagrds to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict you do agree there is plenty of blame to go around - the West, Israel, Palestinian leadership, other Arab countries. All these actors have made mistakes and contributed to the current sad state.

Can you agree with that?
 
laptop said:
So we're back to your favourite interpretation of Arabs as intrinsically bloodthirsty, or tribal, or something?

Time very soon for you just to come out and say you are racist, I think.

No see previous statements. Considering the kind of hate directed at Zionists by many members of the board its a bit rich of you to say I should come out as a racist because I state that it is almost certain that the Palestinian Militias would kill all Israelis. I am not stating that many Palestinians would do this or even agree with this. Maybe even the Hamas politicians would not agree with it, but the militias such as Izz al-Din al-Qassam are the ones with the guns and judging by what has recently happened in Aza it is very likely to happen if they were to overun Israel.
 
warren said:
Considering the kind of hate directed at Zionists by many members of the board its a bit rich of you to say

So you are equating anti-Zionism with racism?

Can you show that you have the faintest understanding of this remarkable statement, or are you just parotting?

warren said:
I should come out as a racist because I state that it is almost certain that the Palestinian Militias would kill all Israelis.

No - because you can't or won't give a reason for which you say this; you say that you can't see that they would need a reason; you mentioned earlier that you have no idea of the difference between Palestine and (someone's interpretation of) Saudi Arabia... all you demonstrate that you have is an idea of bloodthirstiness.
 
The one state solution completely ignores israel why the hell would they go for it
whats in it for them?
 
laptop said:
So you are equating anti-Zionism with racism?

No, but the kind of hate of Israel by some members of the forum is anti-Semitism



No - because you can't or won't give a reason for which you say this; you say that you can't see that they would need a reason;

I gave you plenty of reasons of why it is very likely to happen

you mentioned earlier that you have no idea of the difference between Palestine and (someone's interpretation of) Saudi Arabia... all you demonstrate that you have is an idea of bloodthirstiness.

No I did not, your mixing me up with someone else.
 
The problem with the 'might is right' argument is that you can't then go on to complain whne people blow themselves up on crowded buses. Either you observe the rule of law and abide by some kind of ethical standard, or you have a free-for-all, and expect people to fly planes into your buildings. There's no option to opt in and out as it pleases you.
 
mears said:
In this instance the Palestinians have been there for many years. Hopes of their return home in the near future is not realistic. They face discrimination in the countries they currently reside in.

Is it more reprehensible than other states taking in refugees, I guess it depends on the circumstances. But that in no way excuses the poor treatment in their host countries.

Do you think the parallel can be drawn with, say, Eritrea and Sudan? I'm less sure of the situation now, but when I lived in Eritrea there were hundreds of thousands of Eritrean refugees living over the Sudanese border in squalid camps. They, too, had been there for decades, in penury, and with little hope of return. The Sudanese government had not granted them citizenship (a poisoned chalice anyway, I would say) or extended much in the way of hospitality towards them. Would you say that this was Sudan's fault, or more the fault of the brutal Mengistu regime in Ethiopia which, through widespread war crimes and the brutalisation of the Eritrean populace, had created the refugee situation in the first place?

In reagrds to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict you do agree there is plenty of blame to go around - the West, Israel, Palestinian leadership, other Arab countries. All these actors have made mistakes and contributed to the current sad state.

Can you agree with that?

I agree that all players have some degree of responsibility for what is going on in the Occupied Territories ATM. I would, however, suggest that the burden of responsibility for the shit that's going down there lies with the country that has brutally and illegally occupied the land in question for decades, and the country that provides it with billions of dollars per year to continue that occupation, as well as the fig leaf of the veto on the UN security council to ensure that no binding resolutions on the conflict can or ever will be passed.
 
Fruitloop said:
The problem with the 'might is right' argument is that you can't then go on to complain whne people blow themselves up on crowded buses. Either you observe the rule of law and abide by some kind of ethical standard, or you have a free-for-all, and expect people to fly planes into your buildings. There's no option to opt in and out as it pleases you.

Well maybe it is the wrong term to use. What I mean that Israel is now in a position of military superiority over the Palestinians. The situation of the Palestinians in the West Bank is relatively prosperous compared to Aza. There is no reason for Israel not to economically continue to trade with the West Bank, give aid, medical treatment and other social benifits.

The security fence has pretty much suceeded in stopping suicide bombings. Like it or not it has been a success (from the Israeli perspective).
 
likesfish said:
peace yeah right
with hamas types lose inside the one state with ak47s yeah some chance :rolleyes:

There aren't any ultraviolent, fanatical, religious zealots on the Israeli side, of course.

Oh no.

Do you think that Hamas' stance towards Israel and perceived aggression is a reaction to a situation rather than a natural state of being, or do you feel that it's an Arab idiosyncrasy?
 
bendeus said:
Do you think that Hamas' stance towards Israel and perceived aggression is a reaction to a situation rather than a natural state of being, or do you feel that it's an Arab idiosyncrasy?

Hamas' stance toward Israel is exactly the same stance they have toward anyone who doesn't share their vision of Islam, including Palestinians.
 
Peet said:
Hamas' stance toward Israel is exactly the same stance they have toward anyone who doesn't share their vision of Islam, including Palestinians.

Do you think that Shin Bet intended that when they helped to establish and empower them?
 
didn't say there weren't but can't see the Israeli's going for this plan losing the only jewish state for a supposed guarantee of peace.
there in a pretty strong position at the moment what your asking is them to give up everything with no guarantees.
 
likesfish said:
didn't say there weren't but can't see the Israeli's going for this plan losing the only jewish state for a supposed guarantee of peace.
there in a pretty strong position at the moment what your asking is them to give up everything with no guarantees.

Or to remain in a state of eternal conflict and neurosis, hated by their neighbours, being obliged to spend mountains of cash on materiel every year, waiting for the next suicide bomb to go off.
 
peet;
Hamas' stance toward Israel is exactly the same stance they have toward anyone who doesn't share their vision of Islam, including Palestinians.

It's accepted in Palestine that Hamas have no extremist Islamic agenda. What you've said here is a blatant falsehood, even according to Haniyeh's recent address to the Palestinian nation.

Naturally, I can appreciate that you've been hitherto misinformed, but now you ain't.
 
moono said:
peet;
It's accepted in Palestine that Hamas have no extremist Islamic agenda.

So who is responsible for threatening women to cover up, burning down churches and all the usual trademarks of the religon of peace in its most pious form?
 
Peet said:
So who is responsible for threatening women to cover up, burning down churches and all the usual trademarks of the religon of peace in its most pious form?
ah, a hallmark of the anti-muslim zealot if ever I saw one
 
So who is responsible for threatening women to cover up, burning down churches and all the usual trademarks of the religon of peace in its most pious form?

The WitchFinder General ?
 
bendeus said:
Do you think the parallel can be drawn with, say, Eritrea and Sudan? I'm less sure of the situation now, but when I lived in Eritrea there were hundreds of thousands of Eritrean refugees living over the Sudanese border in squalid camps. They, too, had been there for decades, in penury, and with little hope of return. The Sudanese government had not granted them citizenship (a poisoned chalice anyway, I would say) or extended much in the way of hospitality towards them. Would you say that this was Sudan's fault, or more the fault of the brutal Mengistu regime in Ethiopia which, through widespread war crimes and the brutalisation of the Eritrean populace, had created the refugee situation in the first place?



I agree that all players have some degree of responsibility for what is going on in the Occupied Territories ATM. I would, however, suggest that the burden of responsibility for the shit that's going down there lies with the country that has brutally and illegally occupied the land in question for decades, and the country that provides it with billions of dollars per year to continue that occupation, as well as the fig leaf of the veto on the UN security council to ensure that no binding resolutions on the conflict can or ever will be passed.

Its the fault of the US that Palestinians were throwing one another off buildings?That Palestinians were executing each other in the streets or Gaza? There are many forms of protest and the practice of brainwashing the young and dim to blow themselves and Israelis civilians up is a grotesque form. I beieve there is plenty of blame to go around.

Sudan is dirt poor and has been in a form of civil war for many years now. Many countries in the ME are awash in petrol dollars - Saudi Arabi, Kuwait, Oman, UAE. Countries in the ME have the ability to help Palestinians out of their squalor, Sudan doesn't have the means.

I see a big difference and major hypocricy among Muslims who cry over the plight of the Palestinains. They seems to only care about Palestinians when the suffer at the hands of the Jews.
 
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