Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Right! As soon as this essay is done I'm going back to watch th OT! I'm not letting all you people get ahead of me in the astute observations stakes 
On this thread we have seen Episode III
- Thread starter Lord Camomile
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Lord Camomile said:Right! As soon as this essay is done I'm going back to watch th OT! I'm not letting all you people get ahead of me in the astute observations stakes
can i recommend a big phat spliff for before and perhaps during.
the whole "the son of skywalker" thing in 5 as well, shows that the emperor doesn't consider vader to be anakin at all. remember, it's anakin who's the chosen one, not darth vader. if you see what i mean. i reckon the emperor is using anakins guilt to keep him down.
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
I think Palpatine has quite a good point about perception of the force being based on a point of view. Doesn't Obi Wan make a reference to points of view in ep.Iv (ill have to check, maybe its at the end of empire). The Sith and the Jedi are v.similar. It would be a easy choice to make if you are a jedi. The problem of being a jedi is that yoy get undone by continual fence-sitting because taking action can mean wandering down the darkside. Windu's 'hes too dangerous to live' is a darkside type thing to say. And tips Anakin over the edge, because he has already been in the situation with Dooku and the stuff Palpatine says about the Jedi 'lies' clicks. So the Jedi in every day business appear to get by along some kind of 'don't mention the sith' type way of doing things. If there was an equal amount of knowledge of Sith ways as opposed to jedi ways there would probably be loads of Siths all over the place as bored Jedi go bad. Anyway you need a Sith empire every now and again to clear oput the dead wood.
...and don't even get me started on all the subtle "moment of realization" crap that occurs during the luke and vader duel in 6.
(which is the best lightsaber duel ever btw)
and the whole dark side point of view thing echoes of obi-wans explanation to luke of how he considered darth vader to have murdered his father when he was explaining why he never told luke.
also in iv ;
"there's too much of his father in him"
"that's what i'm afraid of"
(which is the best lightsaber duel ever btw
)and the whole dark side point of view thing echoes of obi-wans explanation to luke of how he considered darth vader to have murdered his father when he was explaining why he never told luke.
also in iv ;
"there's too much of his father in him"
"that's what i'm afraid of"
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Yes, it's in either Empire or Jedi, but he's talking about Vader killing Anakin. Luke is all pissed because Obi-Wan told him Vader killed his father but Vader's just told him that he is his father, so Luke goes to Obi-Wan and says "what's all this about then??" and Obi-Wan says that what he told Luke was the truth, "from a certain point of view".bouncer_the_dog said:
I did think it was an odd way to put it in Sith because it's a fairly well known scene from the first trilogy and yet they're talking about different things (aren't they? This essay is taking all my analytical skills so I'm pretty sure I'm missing shitloads in this convo
)it's also pretty safe to suggest that palpatine knew what anakin could potentially become, after the "we will watch your career very closely" comment in i.
oh and a sith won't off his apprentice until they have a replacement "always two there are, no more, no less" so i can't see one killing his henchman then slapping an ad up in the job centre "must own own lightsabre"
oh and a sith won't off his apprentice until they have a replacement "always two there are, no more, no less" so i can't see one killing his henchman then slapping an ad up in the job centre "must own own lightsabre"
DarthSydodyas
rusting
Sidious boasts this point to Yoda, during their Duel in Ep3. He said something along the lines of he will become more powerful than you or I. Palps, just like Yoda, meditates to scan the force checking on possible future events. The difference is that Palpatine's dominion is the Dark Side, something Yoda had trouble penetrating.fubert said:
What bothers me is exactly why did Anakin/Vader remain inline with Sidious...?
If he did become more powerful, why did Vader not rise and remove his Master, in the age-old Sith tradition..?
I'm going to see this film again, tonite. This time, I'm taking my brother-in-law with me. He has only seen Episode 1 and 2, and is one of the few people who has not seen the original triologies.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
DarthSydodyas said:
That should be interesting, i've always wanted to know what that would be like, what they'd think of the original having seen the prequals first...
DarthSydodyas said:
i think it's all about timing... think back to 5 ; "together we can destroy the emperor.." so maybe he was waiting for luke to come along and help him out. turns out he couldn't turn luke so the emperor had a go in 6 ; who clearly planned to have either vader or luke as the apprentice depending on who ended up chinning who.
i guess vaders loyalty to the emperor just further emphasises how sad his story is. no will of own etc..
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
Well it could be that when Sidious says to Anakin that together they shall find the power to creat life using the midclorins that they in many ways embark on a quest to find the ultimate power of the force. So Vader sticks with the Emp. to plumb the depths of the darkside. Therefore the construction and use of planet destroying battle stations is an excellent way to do Darkside type stuff. The idea that being a good Jedi could achieve this level of understanding of the force is not an option.
Faced with the choice would you a) wear brown robes and meditate a lot achieving balance to gain knowledge of the force b) tear round the galaxy blowing everything to bits to gain the power of the force (dressed in black).
Its a toughie, from a certain point of view.
Faced with the choice would you a) wear brown robes and meditate a lot achieving balance to gain knowledge of the force b) tear round the galaxy blowing everything to bits to gain the power of the force (dressed in black).
Its a toughie, from a certain point of view.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I kinda thought that was Vader subconciously looking for a way out, he wanted Luke to help but couldn't bring himself to face what he had become.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Thinking about it I do get the feeling Vader was never all bad, and Anakin remained to the end. What made him powerful was also what held him back: his own self-hate. And you can't hate yourself if there's no good in you.
Something I can't remember: when does Vader find/work out Luke is his son? I'm pretty sure he doesn't know in A New Hope, because he only says "the force is strong with this one" not "shit, it's ma boy!". Granted they're both in space fighters and so he may not have got the best view, but you would have thought he'd be able to 'feel' his own son. Also, he probably got a decent look in the hanger as they escape from the Death Star, though his attention was rather on Obi-Wan.
Also, just thinking about it: that was the Death Star in Sith right?? Now Sith is set a good 15/20 years or so before A New Hope, but the Death Star only becomes fully operational during that film. The Death Star Mk I is blown to space dust at the end of A New Hope, so they then have to start all over again. Have they just got really quick at building space moons in the intervening time??? There can't be as much time between New Hope/Empire/Jedi as there is between Sith and New Hope, can there?
Something I can't remember: when does Vader find/work out Luke is his son? I'm pretty sure he doesn't know in A New Hope, because he only says "the force is strong with this one" not "shit, it's ma boy!". Granted they're both in space fighters and so he may not have got the best view, but you would have thought he'd be able to 'feel' his own son. Also, he probably got a decent look in the hanger as they escape from the Death Star, though his attention was rather on Obi-Wan.
Also, just thinking about it: that was the Death Star in Sith right?? Now Sith is set a good 15/20 years or so before A New Hope, but the Death Star only becomes fully operational during that film. The Death Star Mk I is blown to space dust at the end of A New Hope, so they then have to start all over again. Have they just got really quick at building space moons in the intervening time??? There can't be as much time between New Hope/Empire/Jedi as there is between Sith and New Hope, can there?
DarthSydodyas
rusting
Vader never found out about Luke's true identity in the films, but I think it was between Ep4-5 where a rebel is captured and the identity of the guy responsible for destroying DS1 is revealed (skywalker).
DarthSydodyas
rusting
Sidious had backstabbed his master, and knew wot went around came around. It seems to be the way of the Sith. Yes, Vader was limited by his suit, but I got the feeling, from that Vader line, there was more to their relationship. I was expecting the Emperor to be much much more powerful (or at least demonstrate this). If not being more powerful (i.e. knowledgable), then perhaps having some other control over him - like his suit needing some kind of sustance that the emperor could withdraw with a mere thought.the B said:
I'll watch the flick again and see how it comes across a 2nd time.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
I have one major problem with EIII.
"...she's lost the will to live..."
How fuckin toilet was that line, I would rather have had Anakin be responsible for the death of Padme as it would have heightened his fall into the darkside.
That and General Grievous was fucking shit, I expected more from four lightsabers in all honesty, not just have most of them lopped off in a minute or two. I know the Clone Wars cartoons explains it, but that's terrible Wachowski Brothers style filmmaking that is. As has been mentioned, Dooku should have been emphasised more I mean FFS it's Christopher Lee! Not like he can't act his arse off anyway is it now?
(did anyone else suspect that Grievous was the reincarnation of Darth Maul...? Just me hoping for that tie-in to make the Obi Wan v Grievous battle have a bit of oomph to it?)
The best scenes for me were the 'opera' with Sidious and Anakin, a real cracking bit of badguy work there from McDiarmid
The other was the final scene between Anakin and Obi Wan, McGregor was absolute brilliance in screaming out all of his fear and confusion at Anakins turning.
Agree with the Yoda over syntaxing "Not if anything to say about it, I have" <-- Shite! And also thought Chewie was underused, I mean we all recognised the big furry bloke but he got a name only as Yoda flew off into space.
Im damn certain the DVD will have a bit more on Kysshak (wookieworld) and definitely include Qui-Gon.
And because noone else has said it thus far, the film did not work because of the script really. John Williams is a fucking legend in my book. The score could not have been any more perfect.
Oh yes and Darth's 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO' was appallingly bad. The force crushing the fuck out of everything was brilliant, but personally I would have done it like this.
<emporer spiel about padme being killed by vader>
<vader declares he she was alive>
*crushey force stuff happens, accompanied by a roar, not a 'nooo' but a roar*
<pause, breathey effects...and then>
"so be it"
"...she's lost the will to live..."
How fuckin toilet was that line, I would rather have had Anakin be responsible for the death of Padme as it would have heightened his fall into the darkside.
That and General Grievous was fucking shit, I expected more from four lightsabers in all honesty, not just have most of them lopped off in a minute or two. I know the Clone Wars cartoons explains it, but that's terrible Wachowski Brothers style filmmaking that is. As has been mentioned, Dooku should have been emphasised more I mean FFS it's Christopher Lee! Not like he can't act his arse off anyway is it now?
(did anyone else suspect that Grievous was the reincarnation of Darth Maul...? Just me hoping for that tie-in to make the Obi Wan v Grievous battle have a bit of oomph to it?)
The best scenes for me were the 'opera' with Sidious and Anakin, a real cracking bit of badguy work there from McDiarmid
The other was the final scene between Anakin and Obi Wan, McGregor was absolute brilliance in screaming out all of his fear and confusion at Anakins turning.
Agree with the Yoda over syntaxing "Not if anything to say about it, I have" <-- Shite! And also thought Chewie was underused, I mean we all recognised the big furry bloke but he got a name only as Yoda flew off into space.
Im damn certain the DVD will have a bit more on Kysshak (wookieworld) and definitely include Qui-Gon.
And because noone else has said it thus far, the film did not work because of the script really. John Williams is a fucking legend in my book. The score could not have been any more perfect.
Oh yes and Darth's 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO' was appallingly bad. The force crushing the fuck out of everything was brilliant, but personally I would have done it like this.
<emporer spiel about padme being killed by vader>
<vader declares he she was alive>
*crushey force stuff happens, accompanied by a roar, not a 'nooo' but a roar*
<pause, breathey effects...and then>
"so be it"
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Yes. That was shite. (forehead got slapped for that one too)TheLostProphet said:
I can't remember if I've already posted this (Derren Brown is on so must rushTheLostProphet said:
) but I never thought Lucas should have killed off Maul in Ep I. Darth Maul should have remained Sideous' apprentice until Anakin started muscling in on his place, then they have it out in a big-ass battle with Anakin taking Maul's place as the new apprentice. Would have had great Luke/Vader undertones and everything!!And you're right, that would have made a much better ending to Vader's birth.
Lucas should not have been allowed to write the stories, scripts or fucking notes to the photocopy guy. He completely messed up so many potentially great things
sipotential
New Member
Ive seen the RED-NECK version of star wars ???
It ends with the line
" luke i am your father, and your uncle "
It ends with the line
" luke i am your father, and your uncle "
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Packed with "war on terror" metaphors. "Only the Sith deal in absolutes"... just before that, I was convinced Anakin was going to say "if you're not with me you're against me", but instead he says "if you're not with me... (long pause) you're an enemy" which is just a cop-out. The Emperor and AnakinVader constantly talking about maintaining peace by conflict is significant too. A leader coming under an attack he inspires himself and using that as a chance to gain complete control....
Mind you - that could just be that TWAT is an expression of classic truths about human popular imperialist movements, and the film is just expressing that cliche. I've not got a lot of confidence that there's any depth in the overall storyline. Not given the clunking dialogue, sorry.
Mind you - that could just be that TWAT is an expression of classic truths about human popular imperialist movements, and the film is just expressing that cliche. I've not got a lot of confidence that there's any depth in the overall storyline. Not given the clunking dialogue, sorry.
dlx1
Well-Known Member
sipotential said:
---------
Yep it was better then the last two but that not hard.
Ewan McGregor - when did he become the county gent. pip pip tally ho
I think he acting is shit.
the cgi was good but the bit were Ewan McGregor ride the lizer thing look crap, didn't blend in with background.
Happy to have seen on big screen. not on computer
sipotential
New Member
" sith happen's "
silentNate
1.618 xakep
Indeed- the politics of chapter three are fascinating, the killing of the sepratists and Padme's political change following a disillusionment with a democracy which has been over-run by imperalismFridgeMagnet said:
Lucas states that there was a Vietnam war influence from his generation though we can take it as fact that the movies were based in the move of Roman rule from Julius Caesars hope of a Republic to the Roman Empire run by Augustus (his adopted son, a relationship which is similar to that between Obi Wan and Anakin)....
This is unimportant when you realise how good the Revenge of the Sith is- having seen it tonight I am of the opinion that in the future it will be seen as the most important of the six and most certainly the darkest and pessimistic of them all. Palentine's strategy is revealed to magnifacent effect with the turning of Anakin being sad- I so wanted him dead as he expressed the neo-con ideas fridgemagnet has already spoken about.
The SFX are amazing- the fight at the beginning has the kind of CGI only other sci-fi movies can dream of. I can only beg you not only to see it but not to take any child under eight- this is quite adult with violent imagery that can only shock.
I say it is the best of the six movies- and will take on anyone that thinks different...
This is the problem, whilst George Lucas saved the best til last... It is now over
silentNate
1.618 xakep
Anakin kills the Emperor in the final episode- the prophesy is true and it is he and not Luke who, 'brings balance to the force' and renounces the dark sideKid Eternity said:
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