on philosophy

[Knotted]

now, isn't the simple answern 'yes, but not really, and not to Marx' quite applicable here.

But isn't it philosophically contemplative to regard contemplation in opposition to action? Isn't there a driving monism behind Marx's methodology (although that's me possibly Plekhanovising Marx again)?

In short I don't understand why Marx doesn't criticise a false opposition in Feuerbach between contemplation and action. Why does he (seemingly) underscore this opposition?

This might all seem pedantic, but if you look at the various Trotskyist sects in this country they all seem to use and abuse the notion of activity being central to political existence. Gerry Healey's Workers Revolutionary Party being the worst example.

You haven't responded to interpretation 1, fwiw? i must sleep now, but speak to you tommorow, hopefully

What was interpretation 1?

Don't loose sleep on my account!

 

[118118]

i'm not sure i'm quite sure i undertand: why does political activity superceed philosophy?

i have suggetsed that marx begins with as a philospher and advances to political activity through seeing th dialectical contradictions in social practices - this time in philosophy.

 

[Knotted]

I'm not saying that political activity superceeds philosophy and I'm not saying you are either. But Marx is often taken as saying this by Marxists especially dodgier sectarian Marxists. Just pointing out that this debate is not just a philosophical obscurity.

 

[118118]

yeah... it seems that that is what it says, to me tho. sorry.

 

[118118]

i'd be intersted in what you decide knotted, as i struggle to see any other interpretation... fwiw, i think that its ok to agree with some points on reactonary groups (tho i am not sure who you mean), as long as you have alternatives to some of the more subtle things they may not have grasped.

 

[Knotted]

i'd be intersted in what you decide knotted, as i struggle to see any other interpretation... fwiw, i think that its ok to agree with some points on reactonary groups (tho i am not sure who you mean), as long as you have alternatives to some of the more subtle things they may not have grasped.

I still don't understand what Marx meant by activity. Did he mean personal activity, 'getting involved' etc. Did he mean the study of social/political action? Or was it somewhere between the two?

The idea that activity is central can be used by political leaders to exhaust the membership and shutdown discussion (cf WRP). It can also be used to bolster idiotic practice. "You can't criticise us, at least we're doing something, what about you?" I have occasionally come across activists who think that activity somehow produces theory of its own accord.

I think what worries me is not Marx's criticism of philosophy but rather the emphasis on activity. At least he was talking about revolutionary, practical-critical activity, rather than mindless activism. But again what exactly does that mean? I can't think of anywhere where he elaborates on it.

I think I need to read Feuerbach to properly understand what Marx was saying, but the Essense of Christianity looks very long and predictable.

By the way I get the feeling I'm missing a chunk of material of your interpretation.

 

[118118]

just some books by the open marxism, icc, pol forums, and a few articles on people (alledgedly) assocaited with the groups the icc (alledgedly) grew out of. I haven't done any reading on Marx for a good 6 months (and little then), so i can't think of anything else.

yeah, of course he means critical activity as well as, well, whatever... isn't that what we are doing now, i assumed (lol if that sounds mental). just what marx does in the theses, i assumed. + whatever.

 

[Knotted]

yeah, of course he means critical activity as well as, well, whatever... isn't that what we are doing now, i assumed (lol if that sounds mental). just what marx does in the theses, i assumed. + whatever.

That's what I'm inclined to assume, but what's the difference between this sort of critical activity and critical contemplation?

 

[gracious]

this thread is the most ironic thing i've ever seen...

u lot are wankers

 

[118118]

u r a wanker

eta: oh i see ur point, erm, yeah, i don't see that what you said is any different to anything me and knotted have said, tbh

eta2: no, i don't see your point: don't be such a fucking tosspot.

 

[118118]

fucking anarchists. shoot the fuckers, i say

 

[118118]

you clealy started the ball rolling by using a marx quote you stupid little anarchist. why not just say, philosophy is masturbation? eh?

 

[Fruitloop]

Philosophy is the sound of no hands wanking.

 

[gracious]

you stupid little anarchist

ooh... bitchy!

 

[gracious]

heheh... philosophising about philosophy is what you 2 are doing... that's gotta be worse than philosophising about the world, which is what marx was complaining is like wanking...

you two are wanking over wanking..

*imagines top shelf publication full of pictures of sad men staring at internet porn*

 

[118118]

you've taken any fun out of this now.

i was going to say, something about contemplating social practices, rather than, whatever philosophers dp. whether or not marx is a social practice, or it can't be just cos its written down and not Smashing Shit Up, I don't know.

 

[118118]

yeah, marx was such a bitch wasn't he ha ha. did you or did you not ask us to discuss a philosophical quote? oh you knew did you, you knew how ironic this thread was going to be, it was a trap. lol. yet another anarchist bully, who doesn't like people that are diferent to him/her.

 

[118118]

i suggest you go post 'u r wankers' at the end of every thread on here

 

[gracious]

oh you knew did you, you knew how ironic this thread was going to be, it was a trap. lol. yet another anarchist bully, who doesn't like people that are diferent to him/her.

easy now... i was only gently taking the piss

i thought this thread might elicit some responses from people who agree with me that philosophy often ends up being so academic and abstract that it disappears up its own arse and achieves nothing... i didnt, honestly, expect a demonstration of that!

 

[118118]

which is what marx was

WANKER

 

[118118]

then next time don't use a philosophy quote you bafoon. and please, stop callinng me a wanker! i don't credit you with a sense of humour, tbh. shrug.

 

[gracious]

im only extending the metaphor in the quote that started the thread mate, its an allegory not a personal attack!!

and anyway that quote, like all of marx's famous work is ECONOMICS not philosophy!

 

[118118]

oh go on then, criticise marx's economic calculations, rather than attempting some philosophy of economics.

 

[118118]

was marx having a right proper wank in the theses on feuerbach then?

 

[118118]

lol

 

[gracious]

was marx having a right proper wank in the theses on feuerbach then?

probably... they didnt have the internet in those days... lean pickings for porn!

 

[Knotted]

this thread is the most ironic thing i've ever seen...

u lot are wankers

This brings us to the more serious question of whether Marx and Engels had anything against masturbation.

 

[118118]

what do you think of my answer to your question knotted - on what is the difference between paractical activity and philosophy? i doubt that its that one is economic, tbh. i think that one looks at social practoces - which subsumes economics of course.

 

[Knotted]

what do you think of my answer to your question knotted - on what is the difference between paractical activity and philosophy? i doubt that its that one is economic, tbh. i think that one looks at social practoces - which subsumes economics of course.

Could you tell me the post you are talking about?

I keep getting this feeling that I'm missing something. I don't remember discussing economics at all.

 

[118118]

lol. sorry knotted. no post in particular, maybe 46: i mean to say that i think in the theses marx is saying that we must contmeplate social practices, which are dialectical.