On a Rugger Tip! - RWC 2007

[tarannau]

Let's hope for England's sake it's a cagey, attritional final. There were some encouraging signs that the Saffa pack may not be quite as secure as they'd like- if England can keep it tight, they've got the potential to worry the Boks up front.

The downside is that SA are far more dangerous in broken field than anyone else England has encountered. Throwing loose loop passes is likely to lead to interception tries, just as it did in the 36-0 drubbing. And in a battle of aerial tennis the teams are fairly well balanced - it's not going to be easy to retain field position.

The first score's likely to be hugely important too. Fingers crossed.

 

[Pingu]

well now...

I dont know what to make of those games. France played hard but didnt particularly look too switched on. England... again played hard but... that game could easily have gone either way with luck and mistakes being the deciding factor. France did seem to pwn England in the lineouts but other than that the english forwards had the measure of them.

SA\Argentina... again no realy "OMG" moments there either. Initially Argentinas forwards had the measure of the boks but that tactic of moving away and making the maul break contact worked well and seemed to fustrate the argentinian forwards. The boks kicking game was better and they never really looked like losing it. Best (and only I think) fight of the tourny so far

two not exactly exciting games

so then boks vs england...

the english will need to raise their game if they are to win it. in particular their kicking game and the lineouts. I thing the english forwards will have the measure of the boks pack but if the boks can disrupt the english maul then it should be interesting. I think the boks backs are better than the english girls but that will be no use to them if they dont see any ball. could be a close one. but I reckin gthe boks will edge it if they can keep their composure and dont lose their rag



eta.. fair doos to the english for getting so far, initially it was embarising but they are a v different team to the one that faced the boks a few weeks ago.

 

[JTG]

He's a twat, never shut up about it last night throughout the game.

Lucky win for England, France choked right from the off, you just knew that they would get down their end and drop one over.

so the French choked and England didn't. That's not luck, that's rising to the occasion and not being shit.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Yes, but one can hardly expect an ABE like sleater to be objective...

 

[Harold Hill]

so the French choked and England didn't. That's not luck, that's rising to the occasion and not being shit.

Yup.

 

[sleaterkinney]

so the French choked and England didn't. That's not luck, that's rising to the occasion and not being shit.

No, getting a team that chokes is luck.

 

[butchersapron]

Making them choke isn't luck.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Making them choke isn't luck.

England didn't make them choke, the pressure on them from their own fans and country did. Did England make Traille choke in the few seconds after the kick off?

 

[butchersapron]

England didn't make them choke? England didn't stop them scoring any tries, didn't force them into a daft kicking game they weren't equipped to play? Didn't smother their running backs, weren't on the scrum half every second of the game - didn't force them to concede a daft late penalty in their own half bu choosing at thr right time and in the right area to run the ball. Right. I think RD was right about you - bitter crop this year. I though that davorder bloke on the guardian site was the most ungracious poster i've ever seen, but you're seriously pushing him.

 

[tarannau]

I love the idea that it's simply enough to turn up and the other team just roll over and choke. Clearly some have some uninformed pie in the sky ideas about rugby.

It takes real effort to show the teamworm, durability and sheer bloody mindedness to play like England have - you make your own luck by pressing so hard that routine attacks seem futile and desperation kicks in. Rugby's one of the games which seems easy when the team's working well as a unit, downright painful when it's not.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I loathe the England rugby union team more than any other sporting entity on Earth but I have to say that not much impresses me in sport more than teams who win when they should not.

 

[han]

It takes real effort to show the teamworm, durability and sheer bloody mindedness to play like England have - you make your own luck by pressing so hard that routine attacks seem futile and desperation kicks in. Rugby's one of the games which seems easy when the team's working well as a unit, downright painful when it's not.

hear hear!

 

[gabi]

Did anyone else read the bizarre story in today's G2 about how the rugby teams in the final reflect on their nations?

And of all the major rugby-playing nations, England is the one whose national squad perhaps ranges most widely in its social, cul-tural and geographical diversity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2191920,00.html



I've lived here about 10 years and I think i can safely say that that is a load of old cosh. They printed this story beneath a picture of the team. It didnt exactly look culturally diverse anyway.

 

[tarannau]

What, so old west country yokel Vickery alongside ex-league wildboy Robinson, plus honest hearted 'son of an accountant' Corry, John Fisher (state school) old boy Sackey, ex Army officer Lewsey and a host of other good backstories don't count as something of a variety?

Compare that to the Saffa squad or the Kiwis (same schools plus a load of targeted Islanders) and the Englan team seem positively Benetton.

 

[sleaterkinney]

England didn't make them choke? England didn't stop them scoring any tries, didn't force them into a daft kicking game they weren't equipped to play? Didn't smother their running backs, weren't on the scrum half every second of the game - didn't force them to concede a daft late penalty in their own half bu choosing at thr right time and in the right area to run the ball. Right. I think RD was right about you - bitter crop this year. I though that davorder bloke on the guardian site was the most ungracious poster i've ever seen, but you're seriously pushing him.

Force them into a daft kicking game?. Beauxis was on from the start to do exactly that. You could see it in their body langauge even before the start, what was going to happen, exactly the same as the argentina game, a big occasion and they couldn't handle it, It's not ungracious, England played the percentage game very well, but you can't hide from the fact that the other team didn't show up.

 

[butchersapron]

Force them into a daft kicking game?. Beauxis was on from the start to do exactly that. You could see it in their body langauge even before the start, what was going to happen, exactly the same as the argentina game, a big occasion and they couldn't handle it, It's not ungracious, England played the percentage game very well, but you can't hide from the fact that the other team didn't show up.

Yes, that's what forced means - fear of England's game helped them change their gameplan before the match had even started, to shut down their natural running game and play for postion and lineout ball instead - they didn't just decide to do that out of the blue.

Ok, if you think that's it, that's all that happened then fine.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Yes, that's what forced means - fear of England's game helped them change their gameplan before the match had even started, to shut down their natural running game and play for postion and lineout ball instead - they didn't just decide to do that out of the blue.

No, they played that way in the match before, it wasn't a change.

 

[butchersapron]

No, they played that way in the match before, it wasn't a change.

True enough, it was a change form their generally most effective or natural style though i think - and that they didn't revert to that against England suggsts that England's game against Aus had helped to knock their confidence in their ability to play and to win that way.

 

[tarannau]

Who played the same way before - England vs Australia or France vs Kiwis?

Either way and I think you're stretching a little too hard. Tactics for both teams changed markedly between games

 

[sleaterkinney]

I don't know, Laporte has been trying to make them play like that for years, a mistake imo. I think he was trying to match them up front for the first hour or so then break out but it was a bit silly as he had done it in the previous match and England knew what was coming.

 

[butchersapron]

I've not seen much of SA other then the england game - what's their lineout like?

 

[tarannau]

Probably the best in the world if I'm honest, althought the Argies pinched one or two against the head. Good in the loose too.

 

[sleaterkinney]

The bitterness thing probably has a bit of truth in it because I can't believe that a team we've beaten for the past 4 or 5 years and tanked a few months ago are in the final and we're not.

SA are very good indeed, but it's the final so anything can happen.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

What, so old west country yokel Vickery alongside ex-league wildboy Robinson, plus honest hearted 'son of an accountant' Corry, John Fisher (state school) old boy Sackey, ex Army officer Lewsey and a host of other good backstories don't count as something of a variety?

Compare that to the Saffa squad or the Kiwis (same schools plus a load of targeted Islanders) and the Englan team seem positively Benetton.

Exactly. Sadly it appears that 'culturally diverse' can only mean 'racially mixed' even though the two things are not always the same thing, in fact are rarely teh same thing...

 

[Poi E]

Compare that to the Saffa squad or the Kiwis (same schools plus a load of targeted Islanders) and the Englan team seem positively Benetton.

Did all the Pakeha guys in the AB squad come from the same school? And were all the Polynesian guys brought to NZ just for rugby?

 

[tarannau]

There's this condescending belief that only posh kids play rugby in this country, which gets my goat a little.

Yep, in the South especially, fee paying schools are often the only schools which offer rugby. That's partly because there's risk and expense in coaching. partly insurance related, partly because of tradition. My state school never played rugby more than once for example.

However, clubs are far more markedly mixed. My (Welsh) dad dragged me to the local London club from the age of 4 onwards. Some of them are loosely based around school teams (lots of Old MidWhitshitians etc) but I'll give a qualified thumbs up to the welcome from even the most hoity toity of public schoolboy organisations - my menagerie of a South London team (7+ black and Asian players) were always well received. Welsh farming teams and a couple of Cornish clubs excepted.

I suspect that a team of public schoolboys would receive a far less pleasant welcome playing the average parks football team.

 

[butchersapron]

I know i've said this before but union is a working class sport in the south west and up to parts of the midlands - S Wales as well of course. It's the RBU and the official structures that are still part of the old boys and blazers network. They are not the clubs though, and im my experience there's a huge amount of distrust and dislike of from the clubs towards the bureaucratic dominance and privilige of the public school types.

 

[The Boy]

I don't know, Laporte has been trying to make them play like that for years, a mistake imo. I think he was trying to match them up front for the first hour or so then break out but it was a bit silly as he had done it in the previous match and England knew what was coming.

Quite. The first things Laporte did when he took over was to focus on discipline and defence. France haven't consistently played decent running rugby for years. The reason we lost on Saturday wasn't because of a 'choke' or whatever, it was down to piss poor team selection and tactics - nothing new under Laporte.

 

[London_Calling]

People who talk about 'choking' - like those half-arsed journos - don't begin to understand the nuances of team sports.

They embarrass themselves with their opinionated ignorance - fucking armchair warriors. Meh.

 

[Poi E]

There's this condescending belief that only posh kids play rugby in this country, which gets my goat a little. .

The reverse in NZ.

Out of the AB squad at the WC, only three guys went to the same school as 3 others (not bad considering the pop of NZ). Looking at the schools, only 3 guys went to anything that could be considered "posh". Out of the Polynesian guys, three were picked from their homelands, but the bulk were early immigrants to NZ.