olympics to cost londoners £1000 extra on council tax

[Fuzzy]

do any londoners know for certain that they are going to be charged extra on their council tax yet or is this still heresay or media generated propaganda? curious to know whether anything has actually been confirmed yet.

 

[BarryB]

Something like 170 out of 300 businesses and Hackney Marshes could be saved if 30% of the parking area is ditched. This parking BTW is only for the officials and 'special guests' the rest of us will have to go by tube.

I can't believe they announced it might well go over budget and that London would have to pay, even before they got started.

The GLA also promised to find business a place to go and that they would negotiate a fair price for their property before issuing any compulsory purchase orders, well that went right out the window didn't it!
Now they will all appeal of course and delay the building process which will cost more to get it done on time.

Why didn't we just let the French have it. Boy am I mad about how badly organised this is. Even if they come in on budget it makes a loss that will take ten years to recoup if everything goes perfectly which of course it won't. Even the worst Olympic financial disasters didn't plan anything to just break even!

It was only to be expected that there would be problems over negotiating a price for moving the affected businneses. The businneses want to get the highest amount possible. The LDA want to pay as little as possible. Thats capitalism. But after all the shouting has died down a deal will be done.

BarryB

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

It was only to be expected that there would be problems over negotiating a price for moving the affected businneses. The businneses want to get the highest amount possible. The LDA want to pay as little as possible. Thats capitalism. But after all the shouting has died down a deal will be done.

BarryB

But there is major disruption to a business when it has to be moved, that can have financial implications coupled with the fact that a lot of them will lose business at a new location. None of this has been taken into account by the LDA. (sorry I said the GLA earlyer)

 

[BarryB]

But there is major disruption to a business when it has to be moved, that can have financial implications coupled with the fact that a lot of them will lose business at a new location. None of this has been taken into account by the LDA. (sorry I said the GLA earlyer)

Im sure what you say has some merit. So I would think its only right that the LDA should pay out more than just the "market" value of the land. The LDA will probably say that for legal reasons they cannot do this. Whether there is any merit to this argument I dont know. Anyway we have to accept that the Olympics is coming to London. But support should be given to London Olympics Watch which will be campaigning with others to mitigate the worst effects of the Olympics (such as the concreting over "temporarily" of Hackney Marshes). There is a LOW meeting next week at the Clays Lane Housing Coop. I will post the details later.

BarryB

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

(such as the concreting over "temporarily" of Hackney Marshes).

BarryB

I'm sure this is not going to be temporay at all, if they run out of money in the rest of the project (how unlikely is that?) they have suggested that they might not have the available funds to put it back, in which case developing the area might be needed to recoup costs.

 

[BarryB]

Im sure what you say has some merit. So I would think its only right that the LDA should pay out more than just the "market" value of the land. The LDA will probably say that for legal reasons they cannot do this. Whether there is any merit to this argument I dont know. Anyway we have to accept that the Olympics is coming to London. But support should be given to London Olympics Watch which will be campaigning with others to mitigate the worst effects of the Olympics (such as the concreting over "temporarily" of Hackney Marshes). There is a LOW meeting next week at the Clays Lane Housing Coop. I will post the details later.

BarryB

Details of the November London Olympic Watch meeting are:

Wednesday 30 November at Clays Lane Community Centre Cafe, E15 at 7.30pm

BarryB

 

[BarryB]

i'd be very interested to see how that goes, I live around the corner, and i've worked with tenants on the clapton park estate nearby, there could be fireworks at that meeting..

Meeting delayed. Possibly 12 December.

BarryB

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Meeting delayed. Possibly 12 December.

BarryB

So a well organised group then! I've just posted the meeting details up on another email list. They can fuck off.

 

[haggy]

So a well organised group then! I've just posted the meeting details up on another email list. They can fuck off.

bad day at work?

 

[JWH]

But it isn't just medal hopefuls - its regular common or garden track riders too...who can't use Herne Hill for half the year because of poor weather.

London needed a covered Velodrome - and it was going to be built regardless of the sucess of failure of the olympic bid.

Oh, come on, this is getting ridiculous. Green space should be concreted over at public expense to built a white elephant for the benefit of a tiny number of well-heeled track riders so they can ride in winter? Please.

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

Oh, come on, this is getting ridiculous. Green space should be concreted over at public expense to built a white elephant for the benefit of a tiny number of well-heeled track riders so they can ride in winter? Please.

Some glaring points that anyone who had even remotely taken an interest in the velopark would have realised by now:-

#its not green space, its brown space - or perhaps you were also moaning when they originally put Eastway in on what was then green space?

#the majority of the project is lottery funded.

#and what a crucial # this is for blowing away you moaning, The Velopark was always going to be built anyway REGARDLESS of the olympic bids success or failure - the announcement of its construction was merely timed to coincide with the IOC delegations visit to increase the bids chances - which is why plans were made ages ago and contruction will finish in 2008. Its a separate project from the rest of the olympic facilities and deals and sums were done years ago.


your 'well heeled track riders' comment as its too twatty to bother with though.

 

[JWH]

The fact that it was money that was going to be pissed away anyway doesn't make it any better, nor that it was lottery money. The lottery money comes from tax on lottery tickets, I don't know why it's being considered as some sort of free money.

Put your handbag away. Cycling is an expensive sport to get into and it's terribly unpopular. There are many thousands of better ways to spend public money that would encourage more people to do sport and would more useful to more people. Instead, there's the usual prestige approach - build a supershiny expensive central state of the art facility in London.

 

[Termite Man]

The fact that it was money that was going to be pissed away anyway doesn't make it any better, nor that it was lottery money. The lottery money comes from tax on lottery tickets, I don't know why it's being considered as some sort of free money.

Put your handbag away. Cycling is an expensive sport to get into and it's terribly unpopular. There are many thousands of better ways to spend public money that would encourage more people to do sport and would more useful to more people. Instead, there's the usual prestige approach - build a supershiny expensive central state of the art facility in London.

So because it's a sport that isn't popular then it shouldn't have facilities ? I guess only popular sports should get money and facilites , so we'll be stuck in a world of golf , football , rugby and cricket . What an exciting sporting future we'll have for our obese children who won't have any real choice in what sort of sport they want to do

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

The fact that it was money that was going to be pissed away anyway doesn't make it any better, nor that it was lottery money. The lottery money comes from tax on lottery tickets, I don't know why it's being considered as some sort of free money.

Put your handbag away. Cycling is an expensive sport to get into and it's terribly unpopular. There are many thousands of better ways to spend public money that would encourage more people to do sport and would more useful to more people. Instead, there's the usual prestige approach - build a supershiny expensive central state of the art facility in London.

People who buy lottery tickets aren't forced to. Most are very aware the money goes to 'good causes'. This is one such good cause, at present if you want to ride the boards you have to go to Calshot(Hampshire), Newport or Manchester. For anyone in the south east thats a mammoth trek. There has been a need for a covered, short track velodrome in London for as long as I can remember, as much as I love Herne Hill it was an outdated facility in 1948 and if you've been in the last decade (have you been?) you'll know that the clubhouse and changing facilities are falling apart to the point of being unsafe. Updating isn't an option as the Dulwich Estate want it to maintain a quaint 1930 vibe and at 440 metres its too long for modern racing.

Despite your aspurtions, Track cycling is neither a minority sport nor one for toffs, nor expensive - you can hire a bike at any of the above velodromes, but you'll have a job getting track time as all three are booked up almost continuously (probably because its such an unpopular sport ). Really, this aint some bloody big spike in Portsmouth harbour, this is a real, usable facility for thousands of cyclists in the south east thats being built on what was literally a shithole. I don't understand why anyone who has taken even a cursory interest in the project would have a problem with it...bar blind prejudice.

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

oh and if you read that link I posted earlier, you'd see that it was mountain bike track and BMX track are part of the plans - or are they elitist too?

 

[JWH]

So because it's a sport that isn't popular then it shouldn't have facilities ? I guess only popular sports should get money and facilites , so we'll be stuck in a world of golf , football , rugby and cricket . What an exciting sporting future we'll have for our obese children who won't have any real choice in what sort of sport they want to do

Oh, stop drooling, ffs. If the purpose was to increase kids' access to sport, you'd take money and spend it on lots of small locations all over the place that would be used intensively and can be used by lots of people without ridiculous expense => football, BMX tracks, basketball.

Instead, what's being built is a single, centralised prestige resource that's going to be the domain of a tiny number of hardcore enthusiasts that can afford to spend hundreds of quid on gear.

(People who buy lottery tickets aren't forced to so it doesn't matter if the tax revenue is wasted? What a complete non-argument).

 

[BarryB]

So a well organised group then! I've just posted the meeting details up on another email list. They can fuck off.

There may be some confusion on your part here.The meeting that has been postponed is not the London Olympics Watch meeting. That is still taking place next Wednesday 30 November. The meeting that is postponed is one for people living around the Lea Bridge area of Hackney to discuss the LDA CPO. But even if it was the LOW meeting that has been postponed why the extreme reaction? In life things dont always go exactly to plan.

BarryB

 

[Termite Man]

Oh, stop drooling, ffs. If the purpose was to increase kids' access to sport, you'd take money and spend it on lots of small locations all over the place that would be used intensively and can be used by lots of people without ridiculous expense => football, BMX tracks, basketball.

Instead, what's being built is a single, centralised prestige resource that's going to be the domain of a tiny number of hardcore enthusiasts that can afford to spend hundreds of quid on gear.

(People who buy lottery tickets aren't forced to so it doesn't matter if the tax revenue is wasted? What a complete non-argument).

did you read sigmands post above , the facilitie does have a bmx and mountain bike track with it ! And why should we only cater for popular sports , if the velodrome gets used a lot then it is money well spent and maybe a decent venue will encourage more people to take the sport up !

And why are you claiming you need hundreds of pounds of gear then saying people can afford BMX's , surely the equipment needed for both sports is a bike so why should the cost be so different , I doubt you'll need a top of the range just to go to the velodrome so why should the cost of a racing bike be that much more than a BMX ?

I agree spending the money on small locations would be better but I doubt your going to get lots of small velodromes because they wouldn't be any good , and maybe you could answer my question why should popular sports only get funding , everyone pays their taxes so why should the need of basketball players be put above the need of track cyclists , we should cater for every sport including minority ones for the benefit of everyone not just those that like basketball , BMXing and football .

 

[toggle]

I agree spending the money on small locations would be better but I doubt your going to get lots of small velodromes because they wouldn't be any good , and maybe you could answer my question why should popular sports only get funding , everyone pays their taxes so why should the need of basketball players be put above the need of track cyclists , we should cater for every sport including minority ones for the benefit of everyone not just those that like basketball , BMXing and football .

because, for the cost of one central location for cyclists, you can put in a multitude of smaller, local facilities that will cater to a lot more people in some other sports. If the money to build these facilities is limitedl, then the centralised facility for the sport with limited appeal should come after local facilities that will cater to more people and be used a lot more.

But then putting in basketball courts or skate parks for estate kids dosen't win us an international sports fest, aka financial black hole.

 

[Termite Man]

because, for the cost of one central location for cyclists, you can put in a multitude of smaller, local facilities that will cater to a lot more people in some other sports. If the money to build these facilities is limitedl, then the centralised facility for the sport with limited appeal should come after local facilities that will cater to more people and be used a lot more.

But then putting in basketball courts or skate parks for estate kids dosen't win us an international sports fest, aka financial black hole.

Then there would never be a veledrome built , I have no problem with building smaller facilities for local sports but it doesn't mean you should neglect other sports which may not suit the smaller localised venues . Maybe we should start building velodromes everywhere , I'm sure if they are local then you think cost would be justified

 

[toggle]

Then there would never be a veledrome built , I have no problem with building smaller facilities for local sports but it doesn't mean you should neglect other sports which may not suit the smaller localised venues .

then there won't be a velodrome built. Simple as that.

I see no point in building large centralised facilities with limited appeal while facilities that communities would be able to use are neglected.

 

[haggy]

But even if it was the LOW meeting that has been postponed why the extreme reaction? In life things dont always go exactly to plan.

BarryB

he's a moody c*** sometimes...

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

(People who buy lottery tickets aren't forced to so it doesn't matter if the tax revenue is wasted? What a complete non-argument).

All tax revenue is 'wasted' if you don't agree with what its being spent on.




why not just admit that you have no 'argument' and just a lot of bar room blather for anyone who'll listen?

 

[corporate whore]

I spent last week in Barcelona, which is held as the best example of an Games regenerating a city. I had a nose around the legacy within the beatutiful Montjuic park.

It's pretty impressive, and sympathetically placed within an existing public space. Compare this with the extensive list of CPOs for London, which includes school land, existing playing fields and Hackney bus station along with a huge number of businesses.

Barcelona's Olympic park seems well-used. Espanyol play footy at the Olympic stadium, for instance, but I do worry (based on nothing, admittedly) that the London site will be practically abanoned after the games have been and gone.

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

I see no point in building large centralised facilities with limited appeal while facilities that communities would be able to use are neglected.

Did you even read the thread? Who the fuck do you think is going to use the BMX track and Mountain bike park? Rich kids from Gloucestershire...er no just possibly kids from east London. The velopark won't be a 'centralised' facility, there are similar facilities in Hampshire, Gwent and Manchester. The fact that each of those is over subscribed and over 100 miles from the capital is kind of a massive clue as to why ones being built in East London.

and if you also missed that, you probably also missed me saying (but I don't mind repeating - though this is the last of my weekend I'm wasting here) that the Velopark is financially nothing to do with the olympics and was always going to be built on this site.

 

[Termite Man]

Barcelona's Olympic park seems well-used. Espanyol play footy at the Olympic stadium, for instance, but I do worry (based on nothing, admittedly) that the London site will be practically abanoned after the games have been and gone.

IIRC Tottenham wanted to relocate to the one of the olympic grounds after it was over but they have been told that the stadium is "only for atheletics use " !

 

[Harold Hill]

The stadium is being reduced to 20,000 so the onlt football team that could use it would be Orient.

Most of the surrounding will be 'Stratford City' when the Olympics finishes I believe.

 

[BarryB]

It's pretty impressive, and sympathetically placed within an existing public space. Compare this with the extensive list of CPOs for London, which includes school land, existing playing fields and Hackney bus station along with a huge number of businesses.

There is no Hackney bus station as such. I presume you are referring to the 2 bus garages in Waterden Road which are indeed in the CPO area. But the garages known as Stamford Hill, Clapton and Ash Grove are not.

BarryB

 

[toggle]

and if you also missed that, you probably also missed me saying (but I don't mind repeating - though this is the last of my weekend I'm wasting here) that the Velopark is financially nothing to do with the olympics and was always going to be built on this site.

and this makes a difference to it being a complete waste of money?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

and this makes a difference to it being a complete waste of money?

Indeed, how dare those bloody cyclists demand a place to practice a sport they love! How dare they use money dedicated to sports to build a facility that will benifit the entire south west. HOW DARE THEY

FFS, it's like watching a footie fan bitching about cricket because they don't play it.