Olmert to US; Support apartheid please.

[cemertyone]

When you say "large" you are describing your own feelings. .

Facts Sherlock ( as always speak much louder than any invective you may want to display) so i would humbily suggest that you pop over to the other thread where i have listed the very "LARGE" percentage of Israeli citizens for whom the notion of racist behaviour and thinking is now the norm).

 

[tangentlama]

this is a peculiarly vaguely unsubstantiated report which is linked to the israeli election in ha'aretz: the borders have been closed. there's been no flour. no bread. not enough water to drink, and yet apparently somehow, the palestinians have managed for he first timeever to fire an iraniankatushya rocket, which no-one has yet managed to smuggle across the egyptian border, and this rocket has somehow been fired from the Gaza strip into Israel (thankfully no injuries at all).

It is believed that the Katyusha fired from Gaza was smuggled into the Strip, apparently across the Gaza-Egypt border from Sinai.

Army Radio said the 122mm Katyusha fired Tuesday is a model used by Iran.

In recent years the Palestinian Authority and terror organizations have tried on numerous occasions to smuggle Katyushas into the territories, but until now, it was thought that Israel had succeeded in foiling all of the attempts.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/699804.html

 

[astronaut]

this is a peculiarly vaguely unsubstantiated report which is linked to the israeli election in ha'aretz: the borders have been closed. there's been no flour. no bread. not enough water to drink, and yet apparently somehow, the palestinians have managed for he first timeever to fire an iraniankatushya rocket, which no-one has yet managed to smuggle across the egyptian border, and this rocket has somehow been fired from the Gaza strip into Israel (thankfully no injuries at all).

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/699804.html

Conspiraloon

 

[moono]

Conspiraloon

Morolon.

 

[astronaut]

Morolon.

Warmonger

 

[ViolentPanda]

Warmonger

Fishmonger.

 

[moono]

warmonger

Astronorks thinks that the Palestinians should down trousers and bend over for the IOF.

 

[astronaut]

Astronorks thinks that the Palestinians should down trousers and bend over for the IOF.

Deep shit - I am a true believer in peace, a pacifist - you believe in confrontation and conflict. Personally I think we should take people like you (left wing extremists), settlers, Hamas/Jihad terrorists, etc. drop you on to a South Pacific or Indian Ocean island (as far away as possible), and delete it from the maps.

 

[rogue yam]

I am a true believer in peace, a pacifist - you believe in confrontation and conflict.

astronaut - do you believe that there are Muslims in this world who are intent upon using confrontation and conflict to spread Islam throughout the world, with the ultimate goal being to have everyone on earth living under Islamic theocracy according to the precepts contained in the Koran? If you do believe this (and I certainly do) would you be willing to use confrontation to oppose those who would force you to convert or accept second-class citizenship as a dhimmi?

 

[tangentlama]

rogue yam - do you believe there are [Jews/Christians/Muslims*] in this world who are intent upon using confrontation and conflict to spread [Juda-ism/Christian-ism/Islam-ism*] throughout the world, with the ultimate goal being to have everyone on earth living under [Judaic/Christian/Islamic*] theocracy accroding to the precepts contained in the [Torah&Talmud/O & NT/Q'uran_∨Hadith*]

*delete as appropriate

watch your step yammie. you're standing on dangerous ground now.

 

[moono]

Astronorks,

Deep shit - I am a true believer in peace, a pacifist - you believe in confrontation and conflict

Good for you. I'm one of those who helps prevent you getting squashed by an armoured bulldozer.
Take a look at Rabbi Arik Ascherman, Executive Director of Rabbis for Human Rights.
http://www.rebuildingalliance.org/proj-rabbis-for-human-rights.html

A Rabbi that sits on the roofs of Palestinian houses while the Israelis are demolishing them ? Now that's a pacifist. Even warriors respect a pacifist like that.
Wtf have you done ?

You'd do well to tell yam where to stick his Islamophobic rhetoric. Billy Graham has done more harm to the world's consciousness than any mullah.

 

[rogue yam]

rogue yam - do you believe there are [Jews/Christians/Muslims*] in this world who are intent upon using confrontation and conflict to spread [Juda-ism/Christian-ism/Islam-ism*] throughout the world, with the ultimate goal being to have everyone on earth living under [Judaic/Christian/Islamic*] theocracy accroding to the precepts contained in the [Torah&Talmud/O & NT/Q'uran_∨Hadith*]

You are implying that there are no significant differences among these three religions in their respective approaches today to theocratic versus secular government. I don't really think you or anyone else on this board is stupid and psychotic enough to actually believe this, although I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you were such a disgraceful, lying little shit that you would pretend otherwise. Further it wouldn't surprise me at all if you sought to have silenced those who refuse to join you in your self-degradation.

 

[rogue yam]

Any readers of this thread who consider themselves honest-minded and truth-seeking, and who are willing to at least consider thoughts and truths that the likes of tangentlama would have banned from all discourse, might find it interesting and enlightening to read some translated excerpts of a recent article by a reformist Arab here.

 

[rogue yam]

Posters here on u75 who are concerned that they might inadvertently speak forbidden truths and consequently be judged guilty of thoughtcrime by the likes of tangentlama face a difficult dilemma. How can they know for sure exactly what parts of obvious reality are forbidden to be acknowledged? Once again yrs. truly is here to help.

The one sure way to avoid speaking forbidden truth is to avoid learning it to begin with. With a mind devoid of disallowed knowledge, and filled instead with hatred for capitalism, America and Israel (don't say "Jews" here!), you will always have a home at u75. Still this begs the question, how can one know what not to know without first learning it? You have questions, we have answers. Answers which are themselves questions (bear with me). If you study well these questions, then all you will ever have to do is say the magic word and stop listening anytime you hear anything that even might answer any one of them. And what is the magic word? Well, duh! It's:

RACIST!

Go ahead and practice. It feels goood!

 

[cemertyone]

Posters here on u75 who are concerned that they might inadvertently speak forbidden truths and consequently be judged guilty of thoughtcrime by the likes of tangentlama face a difficult dilemma. How can they know for sure exactly what parts of obvious reality are forbidden to be acknowledged? Once again yrs. truly is here to help.

The one sure way to avoid speaking forbidden truth is to avoid learning it to begin with. With a mind devoid of disallowed knowledge, and filled instead with hatred for capitalism, America and Israel (don't say "Jews" here!), you will always have a home at u75. Still this begs the question, how can one know what not to know without first learning it? You have questions, we have answers. Answers which are themselves questions (bear with me). If you study well these questions, then all you will ever have to do is say the magic word and stop listening anytime you hear anything that even might answer any one of them. And what is the magic word? Well, duh! It's:

RACIST!

Go ahead and practice. It feels goood!

Have you been on the methadone yammie??? your outbursts are getting increasingly more bizarre.

 

[rogue yam]

your outbursts are getting increasingly more bizarre.

Your posts are as worthless and boring as always. Steady on, lad.

 

[nino_savatte]

Israel was founded as a Jewish state, and the majority of Israelis (and the majority of Israel's supporters in other countries) want Israel to be a Jewish state, now and forever. What exactly this means is subject to discussion and revision, but it is an essential quality of the state of Israel. Some people, both within Israel and elsewhere, think that it is "wrong" for people to want for Israel to be a Jewish state. So there is this difference of opinion.

But what about those people who are enraged by Israel's Jewishness but are indifferent to the explicitly Islamic nature of virtually all of Israel's quite hostile neighbors? What might explain a person's simultaneous hatred of Israel and indifference toward Saudi Arabia? Why would a person demand that Israel become a secular state, but make no similar demand on any Muslim country?

Hatred of Jews would explain this, as would hatred of capitalism. Anything else?

That's an easy leap to make: if you question the racist attitudes of the state of Israel, you are a "Jew hater". What of those Israelis who are members of the peace movement? Are they "self hating Jews"?

Many of the more right wing voices in Israel are of US extraction and they have taken their frontier myths to Israel with them.

How much do you actually understand about the Middle East? Nothing.

 

[moono]

yam;

America and Israel (don't say "Jews" here!)

You're wrong to think that the terms 'Israeli' and 'Jew' are synonymous. They're not.
If you find it harder to smear people as 'anti-Semitic' because they differentiate between the terms 'Israeli' and 'Jew', well, tough titty. It's your own fault for shouting 'anti-Semite' too loudly for too long.

 

[astronaut]

astronaut - do you believe that there are Muslims in this world who are intent upon using confrontation and conflict to spread Islam throughout the world, with the ultimate goal being to have everyone on earth living under Islamic theocracy according to the precepts contained in the Koran?

Of course that's true.

If you do believe this (and I certainly do) would you be willing to use confrontation to oppose those who would force you to convert or accept second-class citizenship as a dhimmi?

Well, if we got to the situation in which their threat was genuine/credible, then I might reconsider my views (I'm not an extremist who believes his views are always 100% correct - I would have fought the Nazis for instance).

But, at the moment, it is violence that is creating the current situation - and that violence need to end - once it does, I believe Muslim extremism will wane as well.

(I don't believe that either the Israelis or the Palestinians are even remotely comparable to the Nazis, thus my approach is preferable.)

That is, what is needed is for people to calm the situation rather than inflame it. I feel that you, moono and tangentlama (and the people like you) are helping to inflame the situation, thus perpetuating it.

 

[astronaut]

Good for you. I'm one of those who helps prevent you getting squashed by an armoured bulldozer.
Take a look at Rabbi Arik Ascherman, Executive Director of Rabbis for Human Rights.
http://www.rebuildingalliance.org/proj-rabbis-for-human-rights.html

I don't believe in this sort of confrontation, because it invariably creates conflict - non-violence invariably leads to violence. I believe in interaction, discussion, debate, rather than protest. Only through interaction can barriers be broken down - protest invariably says "You are inferior to us" whereas discussion and debate says "We are equals."

A Rabbi that sits on the roofs of Palestinian houses while the Israelis are demolishing them ? Now that's a pacifist. Even warriors respect a pacifist like that.
Wtf have you done ?

Sorry, but what makes you think I've never done anything to help? What makes you think that protest is always useful? In my experience, protest nearly always gets the opposite result from what is intended.

You'd do well to tell yam where to stick his Islamophobic rhetoric. Billy Graham has done more harm to the world's consciousness than any mullah.

I'm not religious whatsoever, if any thing, I used to be fervently anti-religious. Now I have reconsidered my views somewhat in that hatred of religion is a contributor to violence - Jewish religious Zionists for instance tend to view the left as being anti-Jewish because the left criticizes religion and not just occupation. By showing myself to be not anti-religion, I am immediately removing an impediment to building relations with religious that might help build peace.

 

[moono]

Astronorks;

Sorry, but what makes you think I've never done anything to help? What makes you think that protest is always useful? In my experience, protest nearly always gets the opposite result from what is intended.

I didn't say you hadn't, I was asking. You say you're a pacifist, and here you are in a Palestine/Israel discussion, so what have you done to promote non-violence ?
Rachel Corrie got squashed by an Israeli bulldozer, numerous other pacifist/activists have been shot by Israeli snipers. I don't recall any of these people being harmed by Palestinians, by the way, just Israelis. How do you intend to bring these two sides to the table, the one which is defending its homes and the one which kills anybody that gets in its way ?

 

[astronaut]

Well I hardly would agree that Rachel Corrie's death helped the Palestinians - if anything, the opposite was true. She pursuaded many that ISM is an extremist organization, and thus something to be opposed. She might have helped garner support among opponents to Israel, but ultimately this conflict will be solved when Israelis are convinced to solve it - and they will not be pursuaded about this by perceived extremists. If you want to solve any problem, you cannot do it by intimidation - and that is what the Israeli right, the anti-Israel left and Hamas, etc. are doing.

 

[moono]

Astronorks, I'm not entirely convinced that you are aware of what you are saying, or even that you have any sort of discipline in discussing this topic at all. I'll tell you what- go in peace and stay out of passionate debate.

 

[rogue yam]

Astronorks, I'm not entirely convinced that you are aware of what you are saying, or even that you have any sort of discipline in discussing this topic at all. I'll tell you what- go in peace and stay out of passionate debate.

Hey moono! Since apparently you alone are competant to judge other posters' knowledge and discipline, please tell me how I'm doing, you lying, pompous fucktard!

 

[rogue yam]

Of course that's true.

<snip>

That is, what is needed is for people to calm the situation rather than inflame it. I feel that you, moono and tangentlama (and the people like you) are helping to inflame the situation, thus perpetuating it.

Well, I can't argue with your approach or your philosophy, but in my own defense I will say that I think there is an important difference between speaking the truth (however inflamatory the presentation thereof might be) and telling lies (however conciliatory-appearing might be their presentation).

You, astronaut, might point out that none of us can be certain what is true, and that is correct. But look above on this thread. I describe the threat of Islamism in straightforward terms, which you accept as "of course...true". Yet this same description brings underhanded denial and threats of censorship from tangentlama.

I believe that such dishonesty and such fascistic squelching of debate are at the very heart of the leftist mindset, and thus are the prevailing character of the u75 political forum (and other leftist fora, I could name names if you like). I honestly believe that conservative political fora (while they may include posts and posters that are backhanded and/or intolerant) are much more dedicated to seeking the truth and freely allowing rational debate of opposing viewpoints.

After all, it is the left that criticizes the right for seeking to apply universal truths to disparate situations. If there is no truth, then nothing is a lie.

 

[astronaut]

Astronorks, I'm not entirely convinced that you are aware of what you are saying, or even that you have any sort of discipline in discussing this topic at all.

That's funny, I'm not sure you are either - I certainly wouldn't trust your version of history any more than I would trust rogue yam's - in fact, you and rogue yam have far more in common with each other than either of you would like to admit.

 

[astronaut]

I think there is an important difference between speaking the truth (however inflamatory the presentation thereof might be) and telling lies (however conciliatory-appearing might be their presentation).

I think that both sides are pretty expert at telling porkies - they might not realize it for themselves, since their "truth" is so deeply enbrained, but lies are lies.

You, astronaut, might point out that none of us can be certain what is true, and that is correct. But look above on this thread. I describe the threat of Islamism in straightforward terms, which you accept as "of course...true". Yet this same description brings underhanded denial and threats of censorship from tangentlama.

Fact is, you overstate the threat, while tangentlama understates the fact - both of you do this to suit your own agenda's. Both are therefore lies - the truth is somewhere in the middle - but neither side is willing to accomodate the other. The result - polarization and conflict intensification.

I believe that such dishonesty and such fascistic squelching of debate are at the very heart of the leftist mindset, and thus are the prevailing character of the u75 political forum (and other leftist fora, I could name names if you like). I honestly believe that conservative political fora (while they may include posts and posters that are backhanded and/or intolerant) are much more dedicated to seeking the truth and freely allowing rational debate of opposing viewpoints.

Crap. Both sides are as bad as each other - both sides lie through their back teeth to promote their views - neither side is interested in telling the truth.

 

[rogue yam]

Both sides are as bad as each other - both sides lie through their back teeth to promote their views - neither side is interested in telling the truth.

Ah, yes. Ye olde moral equivalence. You think this makes you a saint when in fact it makes you a cretin. Read some George Orwell, you ignorant, turd-sucking wretch.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ah, yes. Ye olde moral equivalence. You think this makes you a saint when in fact it makes you a cretin. Read some George Orwell, you ignorant, turd-sucking wretch.

Ah, ye olde abusive Rogue Yam, deploying invective in place of reason.

'twere always thus.

 

[rogue yam]

Ah, ye olde abusive Rogue Yam, deploying invective in place of reason.

No, it's invective and reason, you lying retard.