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Olmert facing fresh calls to resign

Phil: Of course it was the Soviets he signed the pact with, I did not say it was German Communists. You are right though that he locked up ever communist he could find but only in Germany. He did not look all too hard in Poland which had a very active party at the time of the invasion.

The fact is, he could not do it even if he planned to because by the time he rolled into the Baltics the communists would have out numbered the population of Germany ( Communists combined of course with those from all nations he had entered before hand).

As for the Pact, of course it was not sincere. Nothing Hitler did was out of conviction save his racism. Politically, he was a chameleon to a large degree. All that BS with Camberlain, even looking the Chzecks in the eye and promising.

He and his top people were masters of pulling strings. In the UK I am sure you do nto need me to talk about Sir Wilson, one of Camberlain's top advisors, all that back channel lying and assuring. He did it in public as well of course. So Hitler was only playing on Stalin's meglomania. Stalin, so sure of himself, could never imagine that Hitler would be playing for time. Carve up the cushion (east of Germany, west of Russia), give Stalin a toy to play with and then off with his head.

You are also correct that he did associate Bolshevism with Jewry, as many did (and some still do).
 
Gradnma: Rabbi Friendman is from a group called Neteuri Karta that I, and others here, ave talked about alot. Neterui are anti-Zionists and their whole aim is to de-legitamise Israel by any means possible. To do so they have even go so far as to blatantly break Jewish Law (assisting non-Jews to persecute Jews) and as such have alienated themselves even from the most viruelent of anti-Zionism in the Charedi Community.

There is an organisation in America called Agudat Yisroel, known in English commonly by the bastardisation "Agudath Israel." It is an umbrella organisation of all the Charedi, including Chaddishe, organisations, schools, and places of worphip." It is a huge entity.

Before Israel was RE-established in 1948 Agudat militantly opposed Israel on general principal. I will not go off into lessons,etc. but safe to say that after 48 they realised that their whole outlook had been incorrect (to be honest their main sticking point was the heavy Socialism of the founders of Israel and once Israel made huge concessions to the Charedim this dissipated).

Neteuri though, went to the opposite extreme and adopted a no holds barred polciy towards Israel. for examp,e it actually advised the PLO at Oslo and Madrid,meets with Khadaffi and supposrts his One State vison albeit with the expressed hoped that Jews have NO political say in that envisoned entity.

Ergo, a Neteuri Rabbi traveling to the Holocaust Conference in Tehran is not supring in the least. Nor could a Neteuri Rabbi deny the existence of the Holocaust because they developed out of Hungarin Jewry and while Hungarian Jews suffered less than alot of groups in that part of the world, those in the Carpathians and Transylvania regions were virtually exterminated (and this is where Neturi's familes come from).

To put things in perspective, their worldwide population is less than 6,000 according to most estimates and they are generous with their numbers.

That such a group would then suggest that Israel engages in manipulation of the Holocaust is no suprise at all. Anyone taking their word though, would either have to be willfuly devious or ignorant of the dynamic involved. IF Neturi could, they would accomplish their objective by extreme violence, that is how serious they are and how deranged thay have become.

They believe that the Messiah can NOT come until Israel is destroyed so engaging in this type (the kind you are mentioning) of histronics is light weight nonsense.

I did not follow your first link because I know of Rabbi Friendman and know Neteuri VERY well (their headquarters are a diliphadted house in which the first floor has been turned into a plce of worship in Monsey , NY which is a mostly Chredi town about an hour north of the Bronx (the Jewish town of Kiryas Joel, as it is written and incorporated although its name is a cprruption of Ashkenazi Hebrew) but I DID follow your second of course . I have to say, and no offence because I know that you take sources very seriously, but the opinion page for the Guardian? I will not ask if you are serious because I have no doubt that you are but really, you have to know that that is really not representative of anything. Who knows thepedigree of the author? You? Me? Noone. As such, it is worthless as an indicator of anything much less mainstream thinking.

The same is true for the third but what is more is that it is ridiculous. Israel holds up the Holocaust as its primary rationale for existence? What? that is absolutely laughable. It never has done so. Israel is merely the RE-establishment of a Jewish Homeland, on land that has only held Jewish Homelands as far as organic entities are concerned. In other words, other than as a Jewish Homeland, it has merely existed as third rate provinces of foreign empires.

The idea of its "existence" has been uttred daily by most Jews since the last sovereign entity held high its banner. We Jews, those of us who are religious, pray in its direction 3 times a dayand utters its place names in our daily prayers. Neither is Political Zionism a modern invention.

The root of TODAY'S Israel dates to the last years of the 1700s (CE/AD), not to the 1930s and 40s. Before Hitler was a spark in his great-great-great grandfather's eye we talked of it and planned it.

Wass it mentioned by our politicians in the early years? Or even today? Of course. As an event that was catastrophic to our people it must figure prominently in our history. My mother is a Survivor so that we are talking about a very modern event that effects the psyche of many Jews and non-Jews. However, it was not the reason why the UN Mandated our RE-establishment. The UN did this because its progenitor the League of Nations had ALREADY done so when Hitler was a toddler.

I have heard a couple of Jews say that Israel ensures that a Holocaust may never again hurt so many of us and I myself have probably said as much...even on this Forum. Yet it has never been held as a rationale, a raison d'etre...but of just one of a multitude of indicators that prove to us (and in this case "us" does not denote Jewry but Zionism) why we must stand strong.


Ha! the last source is a Kahnist that even the Kahanist Movement hates! Amazing. Not only is that moron (and I have heard of that nut in Israel, he started a movement, called "Zo," that he hoped to turn into a political party (which in Israel is so easy that there was even a party for Taxi Drivers when I was a kid!) but could not drum up enough support. Essentialy he is a religious fundamentalist that has views that most fundamentalists find nauseating (apparently since not many have been drawn to him, aside from what I have observed). What is more is that he is factually incorrect in the piece you chose to source.

Israel makes visiting dignataries visit the Yad Vashem Memorial??? He shows why he could have never formed a political party. He does not posess the faintest understanding of politics. Why did the Governor of NYC, a Jew, march in the St. Patrick's Day Parade here? Of course he did so for the same reason why the heterosexual Governor of Massachusets marched in the last Gay Parade in Boston, because it is a political gesture of solodarity and this is what democratic politicians (and non-democratoc as well when visting any erstwhile ally) tend to do IF they are intelligent.

As someone who has worked closely with both government and politicians in general (who in Israel has not ), I would offer that VIPs do no allow hosts to steer them anywhere as much as they ask their advisors about prominent cultural attractions. They want to be seen as appreciating local culture, not only by their host but by their own demographic and constituency. Is it any suprise that Tony Blair, when PM, would have been seen laying a wreath (which is not even a Jewish Custom by the way) at the Memorial? What better way to be perceived at home and abroad as culturally sensitive. How much better when someone like Blair actually has a sizable Jewish population to consider back home.

Israel does not steer anyone anywhere unless they ask for some tips. then things are listed and the visting dignitary chooses where to go...aside from any kind of political conference that would have already been schedualed (and probably the rationale for the visit anyway).

Anyway, I applud your effort but it proves nothing. I mean, simply ask yourself the following questions:

When did Political Zionism coalesce (as opposed to begin)?

When were foreign powers involved in its formation? Only during or after the Holocaust?

When was Modern Israel planned?

The Holocaust is a seminal event in Jewish History but is not a seminal event in the history of either Zionism (any form of it although it might have convinced more to adop the strictures of Revisonism, not to be confused with Latter Revisonism AKA Post-Zionism as espoused by Chomsky, Shahak, Finkelstein,etc.) OR Israel.
 
As for the Pact, of course it was not sincere. Nothing Hitler did was out of conviction save his racism. Politically, he was a chameleon to a large degree. All that BS with Camberlain, even looking the Chzecks in the eye and promising.

He and his top people were masters of pulling strings. In the UK I am sure you do nto need me to talk about Sir Wilson, one of Camberlain's top advisors, all that back channel lying and assuring. He did it in public as well of course.

It is very amusing to read the history of 1930's diplomacy. The first thing that strikes you is that Chamberlain and co simply could not bring themselves to believe that they were dealing with a gangster. They could not imagine that the leader of a nation would look them in the eye and lie, and in fact do the precise reverse of what he was promising. I suppose such a man could never have attained power in their country, and so they couldn't conceive that it had happened in Germany. Churchill of course knew better.

The interesting question is why Stalin--himself a gangster--did not. I guess it was because Stalin was at least politically sincere, and actually quite idealistic, a genuinely convinced Marxist. So he probably assumed that Hitler must have some ideals as well. Although nothing earthly can really explain Hitler's capacity for decption.
 
The interesting question is why Stalin--himself a gangster--did not. I guess it was because Stalin was at least politically sincere, and actually quite idealistic, a genuinely convinced Marxist. So he probably assumed that Hitler must have some ideals as well. Although nothing earthly can really explain Hitler's capacity for decption.

I think Stalin knew exactly who he was dealing with, but assumed that Hitler would get bogged down in a war on the western front, while he got the chance to build up his own forces. He clearly didn't expect France to collapse so quickly and completely.
 
Phil. the Brits really did believe him...or is it that they just had no choice. I was actually reading Toland last evening (bit of insommnia, always when I am not at home with the different zones,etc.), volume 2 and he was talking about how hitler's advisors were fuming because they were absolutely sure they could have took Britain. Hitler pushed them away by saying that he was only giving them a year, and one (name escapes my memory just now) told him that they were sure they could take Britain right then, but (of course) had no idea about a year in the future. they were giving the Brits a year to get ready and that was not the best thing to do (of course noone would have substituted "brightest" when they could use "best" because they valued their heads).

"A man like that could not have obtained power in the UK.": I am sure that Germans would not have thought so either before Hitler but I tend to actually agree with you on the thought. The psychology of pre-war Germany is one of my pet interests and I have spent many, many an hour contemplating it (as well as the psyche of the collective pre-war German Jewry). It is sort of like "Nature versus Nurture" in that you can wonder if it was the national character of Germany that allowed it, or ws it just that he arrived on the scene at the precise moment allowed.

Germany was in the thores of the Depression, Communism was gaing new adherents all the time, German-Jewry was never as propserous as they were just then. I guess though, we will never have those answers.

Stalin of course was another interesting person. He certainly held SOME Marxist ideals but he was definitely not a typical adherent.

Malamud: I have heard that before and think it might have played a part, albeit a small one but it is all armchair quaterbacking as well as hindisght. Definitely an interesting time in history. Not humankinds' brightest of eras.
 
Nino: I know that you are now curtrently under a ban (aaaaah, feels like a cool breeze saying it) but will no doubt return and it is with that in mind that I reply to the usual insult (although not for much longer I am sure)...

"Did Rachamim have to reply in so many words?" Yes, I did. I believe in full and unfettered honesty (alien concept to some).

"Does Rachamim know that liars often say much more than they have to?": Yes, I do. I took a couple of Psych courses, considered becoming an Evolutionary Psychologist. However Nino, of all people, you should know better than to try and impinge upon my character. In another possible psychological dynamic I am honest to a fault. I have an unquenchable need to tell the truth. Hope you ewnjoy it one day.



"Shut down discourse.": nino, if you quote me verbatim stock Naxzi ideology, I will of course call you on it. Do not act hurt and suprised. One thing you are NOT, is stupid. You know exactly what was being said so please do not try and ruin the thread for the rest of us with this derailing nonsense. Thanks in advance.

I will aslo politely remind you that you failed to answer a single on of my questions. Oh well...at least we have consistency on U75...

Yes, Rachamim, you have shut down discourse. You tend to control discourse in this forum. Furthermore, you refuse to respond to points and questions put to you. To accuse me of not "answering your questions" is a little, shall we say, rich. In fact, you have not asked me any questions, all you have done is hurl abuse at me and respond with 1,000 word rambling essays that completely ignore the thread and anything discussed in it.

You claim to believe in "full and unfettered honesty", yet your lies are legion on this forum. You're a hypocrite as well as a liar. If you want to report me for being honest, I think that says a great deal about your character.
 
Phil. the Brits really did believe him...or is it that they just had no choice. I was actually reading Toland last evening (bit of insommnia, always when I am not at home with the different zones,etc.), volume 2 and he was talking about how hitler's advisors were fuming because they were absolutely sure they could have took Britain. Hitler pushed them away by saying that he was only giving them a year, and one (name escapes my memory just now) told him that they were sure they could take Britain right then, but (of course) had no idea about a year in the future. they were giving the Brits a year to get ready and that was not the best thing to do (of course noone would have substituted "brightest" when they could use "best" because they valued their heads).

Rachamim, let us continue our discussion in sublime indifference to the raging of the heathen.

The truth is that Hitler probably could have taken Britain in 1940. It would have been a hell of a fight, but not as desperate as the one in the Soviet Union. The reason he didn't had nothing to do with military exigency but was purely ideological. He did not want to fight the English because he saw them as racial blood-brothers. He had no designs on the British empire, which he admired (because he misunderstood it).

To him the obvious course of action was to divide the world between the Anglo-Saxon powers, and there were plenty in Britain and the US who agreed with him (Pat Buchanan still makes this case today, as you doubtless know). He could not believe that the UK would ally with the SU against him--because he had no conception that anyone might be motivated by principle rather than realpolitik.
 
Gradnma: Rabbi Friendman is from a group called Neteuri Karta that I, and others here, ave talked about alot. Neterui are anti-Zionists and their whole aim is to de-legitamise Israel by any means possible. To do so they have even go so far as to blatantly break Jewish Law (assisting non-Jews to persecute Jews) and as such have alienated themselves even from the most viruelent of anti-Zionism in the Charedi Community.

There is an organisation in America called Agudat Yisroel, known in English commonly by the bastardisation "Agudath Israel." It is an umbrella organisation of all the Charedi, including Chaddishe, organisations, schools, and places of worphip." It is a huge entity.

Before Israel was RE-established in 1948 Agudat militantly opposed Israel on general principal. I will not go off into lessons,etc. but safe to say that after 48 they realised that their whole outlook had been incorrect (to be honest their main sticking point was the heavy Socialism of the founders of Israel and once Israel made huge concessions to the Charedim this dissipated).

Neteuri though, went to the opposite extreme and adopted a no holds barred polciy towards Israel. for examp,e it actually advised the PLO at Oslo and Madrid,meets with Khadaffi and supposrts his One State vison albeit with the expressed hoped that Jews have NO political say in that envisoned entity.

Ergo, a Neteuri Rabbi traveling to the Holocaust Conference in Tehran is not supring in the least. Nor could a Neteuri Rabbi deny the existence of the Holocaust because they developed out of Hungarin Jewry and while Hungarian Jews suffered less than alot of groups in that part of the world, those in the Carpathians and Transylvania regions were virtually exterminated (and this is where Neturi's familes come from).

To put things in perspective, their worldwide population is less than 6,000 according to most estimates and they are generous with their numbers.

That such a group would then suggest that Israel engages in manipulation of the Holocaust is no suprise at all. Anyone taking their word though, would either have to be willfuly devious or ignorant of the dynamic involved. IF Neturi could, they would accomplish their objective by extreme violence, that is how serious they are and how deranged thay have become.

They believe that the Messiah can NOT come until Israel is destroyed so engaging in this type (the kind you are mentioning) of histronics is light weight nonsense.

I did not follow your first link because I know of Rabbi Friendman and know Neteuri VERY well (their headquarters are a diliphadted house in which the first floor has been turned into a plce of worship in Monsey , NY which is a mostly Chredi town about an hour north of the Bronx (the Jewish town of Kiryas Joel, as it is written and incorporated although its name is a cprruption of Ashkenazi Hebrew) but I DID follow your second of course . I have to say, and no offence because I know that you take sources very seriously, but the opinion page for the Guardian? I will not ask if you are serious because I have no doubt that you are but really, you have to know that that is really not representative of anything. Who knows thepedigree of the author? You? Me? Noone. As such, it is worthless as an indicator of anything much less mainstream thinking.

The same is true for the third but what is more is that it is ridiculous. Israel holds up the Holocaust as its primary rationale for existence? What? that is absolutely laughable. It never has done so. Israel is merely the RE-establishment of a Jewish Homeland, on land that has only held Jewish Homelands as far as organic entities are concerned. In other words, other than as a Jewish Homeland, it has merely existed as third rate provinces of foreign empires.

The idea of its "existence" has been uttred daily by most Jews since the last sovereign entity held high its banner. We Jews, those of us who are religious, pray in its direction 3 times a dayand utters its place names in our daily prayers. Neither is Political Zionism a modern invention.

The root of TODAY'S Israel dates to the last years of the 1700s (CE/AD), not to the 1930s and 40s. Before Hitler was a spark in his great-great-great grandfather's eye we talked of it and planned it.

Wass it mentioned by our politicians in the early years? Or even today? Of course. As an event that was catastrophic to our people it must figure prominently in our history. My mother is a Survivor so that we are talking about a very modern event that effects the psyche of many Jews and non-Jews. However, it was not the reason why the UN Mandated our RE-establishment. The UN did this because its progenitor the League of Nations had ALREADY done so when Hitler was a toddler.

I have heard a couple of Jews say that Israel ensures that a Holocaust may never again hurt so many of us and I myself have probably said as much...even on this Forum. Yet it has never been held as a rationale, a raison d'etre...but of just one of a multitude of indicators that prove to us (and in this case "us" does not denote Jewry but Zionism) why we must stand strong.


Ha! the last source is a Kahnist that even the Kahanist Movement hates! Amazing. Not only is that moron (and I have heard of that nut in Israel, he started a movement, called "Zo," that he hoped to turn into a political party (which in Israel is so easy that there was even a party for Taxi Drivers when I was a kid!) but could not drum up enough support. Essentialy he is a religious fundamentalist that has views that most fundamentalists find nauseating (apparently since not many have been drawn to him, aside from what I have observed). What is more is that he is factually incorrect in the piece you chose to source.

Israel makes visiting dignataries visit the Yad Vashem Memorial??? He shows why he could have never formed a political party. He does not posess the faintest understanding of politics. Why did the Governor of NYC, a Jew, march in the St. Patrick's Day Parade here? Of course he did so for the same reason why the heterosexual Governor of Massachusets marched in the last Gay Parade in Boston, because it is a political gesture of solodarity and this is what democratic politicians (and non-democratoc as well when visting any erstwhile ally) tend to do IF they are intelligent.

As someone who has worked closely with both government and politicians in general (who in Israel has not ), I would offer that VIPs do no allow hosts to steer them anywhere as much as they ask their advisors about prominent cultural attractions. They want to be seen as appreciating local culture, not only by their host but by their own demographic and constituency. Is it any suprise that Tony Blair, when PM, would have been seen laying a wreath (which is not even a Jewish Custom by the way) at the Memorial? What better way to be perceived at home and abroad as culturally sensitive. How much better when someone like Blair actually has a sizable Jewish population to consider back home.

Israel does not steer anyone anywhere unless they ask for some tips. then things are listed and the visting dignitary chooses where to go...aside from any kind of political conference that would have already been schedualed (and probably the rationale for the visit anyway).

Anyway, I applud your effort but it proves nothing. I mean, simply ask yourself the following questions:

When did Political Zionism coalesce (as opposed to begin)?

When were foreign powers involved in its formation? Only during or after the Holocaust?

When was Modern Israel planned?

The Holocaust is a seminal event in Jewish History but is not a seminal event in the history of either Zionism (any form of it although it might have convinced more to adop the strictures of Revisonism, not to be confused with Latter Revisonism AKA Post-Zionism as espoused by Chomsky, Shahak, Finkelstein,etc.) OR Israel.

Jesus wept-Ive never read so many points superfluous to the point I was making and one you agree with. :rolleyes:
 
Malamud: "Sharon's time in power was also not one of history's brightest moments.": It should be considered one. He is the man who founded Kadima. He brought Centrism to Israel, and made doves out of many hawks so I would think that you are definitely wrong.

It was Sharon who brought Israel out of Gaza and part of the "WB" and tried to bring us out of the rest of the "WB."

Nino: Thank you again for another post full of personal insults. Tell me Nino, it is your first day back after your temporary ban, have you not learned to play nice? Again, welcome back.


Phil: Hahaha. For sure.

Well, yes, you are right that he did see the Brits as an Aryan People and in the sense that they were heavily coloured by their Anglo Saxon heritage he had a rationale. However, I definitely think he had designs on UK.

Yes, there were many in the US who agreed with Hitler.

Grandma: I think it is only polite to respond in full when a person is being civil and making a point that I disagree with . I am curious as to why you feel I agreed with your point.
 
Nino: Thank you again for another post full of personal insults. Tell me Nino, it is your first day back after your temporary ban, have you not learned to play nice? Again, welcome back.

What "insults"? Care to quote the post or is it the case that you're allowing your fantasies to take over again?

Given your gloating, you quite obviously had a hand in the ban. Pity the mods can't see you for what you are.
 

Please stop linking from urban75 to Arutz Sheva unless you make a statement first that it is the Voice of (illegal) ultra-right-wing 'religious' Settler movement.
Were you once a disciple of Kook?

This might be ok on your russian-based (bluelight.ru) forum, but it is not ok here.


(I say 'religious' in quotes because they are using the religion excuse to drive off those already living there in the present day by setting up illegal outposts, burning/terrorising muslims who already live there etc)
 
Nino: "What insults has Nino made against Rachamim?": In just the one post I am now responding to, your 2nd to last post, you stated:


I) "You're a HYPOCRITE."

II) "As well as a LIAR."

III) "Your LIES ARE LEGION."

IV) YOU try to SHUT DOWN DISCOURSE."


"If Rachamim wants to report Nino for saying these things...": Nino, that is not the type of person I am. I do not feel that there is ever a need to censor others. You are entitled to your opinion of me whether or not I agree with it, or if is disparaging of me. Moderators will be able to tell anyone who asks that I have NEVER, EVER reported a single person...NOR WILL I EVER.

I do hope that Mods will police the forum in order to allow all people to have their say as opposed to being brow beaten by a sanctimonius bunch of blow hards who feel Activism consists of engaging in fantasy and intellectual competitions of who provided the most exciting rebuttal.

It would make me more happy to see all people behaving in an adult like manner and then politely listening and replying when points are made in regard to said person's own posts....as opposed to people calling people "liars," "hypocrites," and other choice insults.
 
I) "You're a HYPOCRITE."

II) "As well as a LIAR."

III) "Your LIES ARE LEGION."

IV) YOU try to SHUT DOWN DISCOURSE."

None of these things, particularly in the case of the last item, are insults. I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth, Rachamim but that is not my problem. You lie constantly and your attempts to control the discourse in this forum are evident everywhere. By accusing all and sundry of "ad homs" and "insults" you control the discourse; and you use this tactic to shut down any discussion or criticism of your propagandizing style and, more importantly, the brutal actions of your beloved Israeli state.
 
"If Rachamim wants to report Nino for saying these things...": Nino, that is not the type of person I am. I do not feel that there is ever a need to censor others. You are entitled to your opinion of me whether or not I agree with it, or if is disparaging of me. Moderators will be able to tell anyone who asks that I have NEVER, EVER reported a single person...NOR WILL I EVER.

Rubbish. You were cock-a-hoop at the thought of me being banned.

I do hope that Mods will police the forum in order to allow all people to have their say as opposed to being brow beaten by a sanctimonius bunch of blow hards who feel Activism consists of engaging in fantasy and intellectual competitions of who provided the most exciting rebuttal.

Translation: I do hope the mods will allow me free reign on this forum so that I may post up my 'views' unchallenged and continue to claim that some folk have a divine right to evict people from their homes and herd them into camps.

It would make me more happy to see all people behaving in an adult like manner and then politely listening and replying when points are made in regard to said person's own posts....as opposed to people calling people "liars," "hypocrites," and other choice insults.

If I think some one is being "hypocritical" or is lying, then I will tell them so...that is my right. Let's be honest here, you have no interest in other people's opinions nor are you interested in proper discussion.
 
None of these things, particularly in the case of the last item, are insults. I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth, Rachamim but that is not my problem. You lie constantly and your attempts to control the discourse in this forum are evident everywhere. By accusing all and sundry of "ad homs" and "insults" you control the discourse; and you use this tactic to shut down any discussion or criticism of your propagandizing style and, more importantly, the brutal actions of your beloved Israeli state.

I am basically a neutral in this debate, and as such I can evaluate the standard of people's contributions quite accurately. The simple fact is that Rachamim has comprehensively wiped the floor with everyone who has argued against him (with the exception of myself: I still disagree with him over Said, and some other points too). But basically I have seen him utterly demolish what I previously had thought convincing pro-Palestinian arguments, and do considerable damage to the historical case for an Arab state in Palestine too. The animosity he has provoked in some quarters testifies to this success.
 
I see someone is cruising for a banning.
This is the kind of pointless, personal post that contributes nothing.

You're not alone in posting up these little digs of course - there are several equally guilty parties here - but I think it's fair to say that all the mods are utterly fed up with endless personal spats that curse this forum.

How about if people tried to lead by example here and stopped the personal insults?
 
I am basically a neutral in this debate, and as such I can evaluate the standard of people's contributions quite accurately. The simple fact is that Rachamim has comprehensively wiped the floor with everyone who has argued against him (with the exception of myself: I still disagree with him over Said, and some other points too). But basically I have seen him utterly demolish what I previously had thought convincing pro-Palestinian arguments, and do considerable damage to the historical case for an Arab state in Palestine too. The animosity he has provoked in some quarters testifies to this success.

Laugh?

I nearly did.
 
Editor: I think your idea is grand. But then I though it was grand 2 years ago. Not much has changed. Perhaps though this is a new day. I will simply ignore insults then and wait and see if this new policy has any teeth.
 
Editor: I think your idea is grand. But then I though it was grand 2 years ago. Not much has changed. Perhaps though this is a new day. I will simply ignore insults then and wait and see if this new policy has any teeth.

I don't agree with everything you say, but I am glad to see someone propagating an alternative view.

What do some people want from this forum? Everyone agreeing to one point of view?

Are they mad?
 
Olmert's lawyers are attempting to damage the credibility of a key witness in the case against the comb-overed one.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/20/africa/ME-Israel-Olmert.php

Meanwhile, the businessman in question, Morris Talansky, is moaning that Olmert's lawyers are "tearing him apart". You couldn't make this stuff up, could you?
Talansky said that he felt the premier's attorneys were making him out to be an evil man and at one point turned to the court and asked that they consider the effect of the investigation on his family in light of the fact that everything he has done in his life has now become public gossip.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1003501.html
 
Malamud: I say the same thing quite often. Glad to see I am not the only one. I am glad people disagree with me that is my point in posting, or about half of it anyway. The rest is my wanting to present what I see is as factual info. Unchallenged inaccuracy just leads to more inaccuracy and so on. I think more diverse the views, the richer the forum.

Nino: Talansky had to know what he was letting himself in for. He is aJew and not young at all. He knew that he would be torn apart in court. There is alot of speculation as to just why he made himself available rather than staying put in the States. I will not get into the guessing game and rumor mill but will offer that he should quite the whining.

As for "making this up," I do not understand. I have not been to the UK in almost 15 years but remember the press and media there to be much more invasive than anything in America. American media is savage in its attacks of public figures so that it could hardly be strange to someone in the UK.
 
Yes, there will bea Kadimah Primary and it is going to be between
Tzipni Livni and Shaul Mofaz. I hope Livni wins, I feel it would be refreshing ot have a female outlook , all the good it did the UK with Thatcher though. then again Golda was a gem even if she was Labour.
 
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