Olmert facing fresh calls to resign

[nino_savatte]

I now feel enlightened.

Really? Given the content of your posts, I don't you've ever been enlightened.

Now are you going to continue to derail this thread?

 

[nino_savatte]

No GRANDMA, I stated that the given amount in Nin's OP was incorrect and nothing but propaganda. When asked to expalin it, I did, and that should have been the end. Instead, as always, it comes down to how to imagine I am as a person which is kind of sad when you begin to think about it.

Clear as mud. Would you care to point out where my OP is "incorrect and nothing but propaganda"? Olmert is facing calls for his resignation, I haven't made this up.

Oh and stop playing the injured party, it doesn't suit you.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: "Roma never suffered during the Holocaust?": Did I say that? It seems bizarre that you would just post that out of nowhere. First off, yes, Roma DID suffer along with Jews and many other demographics in the Camps but Jews suffered the most losses by far. I should also add that more Sinti than Romas suffered and that while the two groups are similar in their origina and practices there ARE differences, and it would seem strange to introduce the subject of the tragedy that befell Travelling People without mentioning the group that lived in Germany, the Sinti.

You and your fellow travellers will only concede to it when you are forced to. Otherwise, the Roma ad others are never mentioned. Indeed, Jasenovac appears to have escaped your attention too. Ordinarily, the Holocaust is regarded solely as a Jewish tragedy and has been hijacked/conscripted to serve the cause of the Israeli state.

 

[Grandma Death]

Grandma: Yes, I know you did not mention Finkelstein but you did mention manipulation of the Holocaust and the main proponenet of that nonsense is Finkelstein whose book was recently published on that very issue. The man is a sad person indeed. People often use the term "Self Hating Jew" much too casually but I see Finkelstein, as much as an armchair analysis is valid, as the epitome of that phrase.
.

So you do admit there are others who manipulate the holocaust to justify the existence of Israel?

 

[phildwyer]

So you do admit there are others who manipulate the holocaust to justify the existence of Israel?

He has admitted nothing of the sort. Show, if you can, how you reached that conclusion from the quote you cite.

 

[Grandma Death]

He has admitted nothing of the sort. Show, if you can, how you reached that conclusion from the quote you cite.

You're really taken by me aren't you phil? Its ok....I know you have some deep seated issues going on in that mind of yours-but really...I'm not interested in feeding your ego-go find someone else to bother there's a good lad. Either that or start one of your lesbo threads-you obviously get a real kick from them.

 

[phildwyer]

Answer the question Granny, instead of spamming. For there is nothing in the Rachamim's quote that admits what you say--and you know it. So it seems that you've been caught out again doesn't it?

 

[Grandma Death]

Answer the question Granny, instead of spamming. For there is nothing in the Rachamim's quote that admits what you say--and you know it. So it seems that you've been caught out again doesn't it?

*I have nothing to say to someone whose sole intention on Urban is winding people up to feed his twisted sick mind. Until you get the message phil it leaves me with no other option to keep repeating myself until the message hits home-therefore....*

You're really taken by me aren't you phil? Its ok....I know you have some deep seated issues going on in that mind of yours-but really...I'm not interested in feeding your ego-go find someone else to bother there's a good lad. Either that or start one of your lesbo threads-you obviously get a real kick from them.

 

[phildwyer]

No Granny, you don't get to just repeat yourself over and over again. That's even worse than your usual 'links, links, links" routine. If you want to stay here you're going to have to discuss the issues like an adult. Otherwise I'm afraid you're going to have to leave.

 

[Grandma Death]

No Granny, you don't get to just repeat yourself over and over again. That's even worse than your usual 'links, links, links" routine. If you want to stay here you're going to have to discuss the issues like an adult. Otherwise I'm afraid you're going to have to leave.

You're really taken by me aren't you phil? Its ok....I know you have some deep seated issues going on in that mind of yours-but really...I'm not interested in feeding your ego-go find someone else to bother there's a good lad. Either that or start one of your lesbo threads-you obviously get a real kick from them.

 

[phildwyer]

I'm afraid this is blatant, obvious and deliberate spamming Granny. Now do you want me to report you, or do you want to have an adult conversation? This is what you said to Rachamim:

So you do admit there are others who manipulate the holocaust to justify the existence of Israel?

Now, there was nothing in the quote you cited that could possibly have led you to this conclusion. So I am asking you how you reached it. And I warn you now not to just repeat yourself again--that will only mean more trouble for you.

 

[Grandma Death]

Now, there was nothing in the quote you cited that could possibly have led you to this conclusion. So I am asking you how you reached it. And I warn you now not to just repeat yourself again--that will only mean more trouble for you.

You're really taken by me aren't you phil? Its ok....I know you have some deep seated issues going on in that mind of yours-but really...I'm not interested in feeding your ego-go find someone else to bother there's a good lad. Either that or start one of your lesbo threads-you obviously get a real kick from them.

 

[phildwyer]

Stop it Granny. Stop just posting the same thing over and over again. It makes you look like a mad person.

Now, I am trying to have a proper discussion with you. Look: you say that Rachamim has admitted the existence of holocaust manipulation to justify the state of Israel's policies. But no-one else can see where he has admitted this. So why don't you show us where you think he has, and then we can have a discussion about it.

I have to tell you though, that if you just repeat yourself again, people will begin to think you are a bit "touched." So do *not* do it.

 

[Grandma Death]

Stop it Granny. Stop just posting the same thing over and over again. It makes you look like a mad person.

Now, I am trying to have a proper discussion with you. Look: you say that Rachamim has admitted the existence of holocaust manipulation to justify the state of Israel's policies. But no-one else can see where he has admitted this. So why don't you show us where you think he has, and then we can have a discussion about it.

I have to tell you though, that if you just repeat yourself again, people will begin to think you are a bit "touched." So do *not* do it.

You're really taken by me aren't you phil? Its ok....I know you have some deep seated issues going on in that mind of yours-but really...I'm not interested in feeding your ego-go find someone else to bother there's a good lad. Either that or start one of your lesbo threads-you obviously get a real kick from them.

 

[phildwyer]

I'm sorry Granny, but you are cracking up. Elsewhere you write:

Anyone else had these? I've had a crippling migraine for nearly 36 hours-its just starting to ease off. I've read some stuff on the net about how seratonin imbalances can cause migraines. Its only my second ever migraine-and both followed a weekend on pills (1st time) and Crystals (2nd time).

Now you listen to me: it is not a very good idea to come onto this forum and attempt to have a serious debate when you are in this condition. It really isn't. Go away now.

 

[phildwyer]

Anyway, I feel a bit mean now. But how was I to know? I hope you sleep it off Granny, and feel better soon. We'll talk properly then.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: He is a lwayer.": Rarely, yes. I think his last practicing case was defending Pollard but he IS a professor of law at one of the world's premeire universities. Of course his career is built around arguing, but again, what does that have to do with anything Nino?

"Where in the OP was it incorrect and propaganda?": In that you listed an article that gave an amount that was 5 times higher than the actual amount. Yes Nino, he IS facing calls for his resignation although for the last week and a half there has been hardly a peep (really since Barak made his pronouncement).

"Injured party.": So passe Nino. Let us move on please.

"Fellow Travellers.": What NIno? I do not understand why you would call me a Traveller. I am 100 percent Jewish.

"Will only conceed that Roma and others have suffered in the Holocaust when forced to.": First, who are my "fellow Travellers?" Surely you are not suggesting ALL Jews have one opinion? Or is it only a specific demographic within Jewry that you are aiming for? Please do be more specific. Even your insults are becoming vague Nino.

Fact is, Jews (almost all I have ever known and one could just imagine that THAT number is rather large) are quite cognizant of all groups that suffered. Nor have almost all Jews ever sought to monopolise that suffering but facts are facts. No other group was targetted on such a scale. Hitler's obsession with my People dates (as far as we know but of course it preceeds it) to "Mein Kamph" where he outlines it quite clearly. Does he outline his hate of Roma and Jeh--ah's Witnesses (or any other persecuted group)?

The Nuremburg Laws targetted who Nino? He always held (always so far as dating from M. Kamph) derogatory views towards any "non-Aryan" groups but it was Jews that were his prime obsession and this is sadly a fact. He killed 1/3rd of all Jews on the planet at that time and almost single handedly destroyed Ashkenaz Culture (Yiddish almost became extinct along with its rich culture and now only very religious speak it although there groups like Workmen's Circle doing their best to change that).

"The Holcaust has been consripted and hijacked (aic) to serve Israel's cause.": Interesting that you would say that being that it is a minstay of Neo-Nazis and otherwise hateful people (such as Ahmadinejad et al). The fact is that it has not. Is Israel being manipulative if it states that its own existence will prevent another such event from ever destroying Jewry? It is being factual. Israel is a refuge for any Jew wishing to exercise that option and has saved more than a few Jewish demographics from horrible fates SINCE the Holocaust ended (Albanian Jewry, Kosovar Jewry, Azeri Jewry, Ethiopian Jewry among many other groups).

 

[Grandma Death]

I'm sorry Granny, but you are cracking up. Elsewhere you write:



Now you listen to me: it is not a very good idea to come onto this forum and attempt to have a serious debate when you are in this condition. It really isn't. Go away now.

You're really taken by me aren't you phil? Its ok....I know you have some deep seated issues going on in that mind of yours-but really...I'm not interested in feeding your ego-go find someone else to bother there's a good lad. Either that or start one of your lesbo threads-you obviously get a real kick from them.

 

[Grandma Death]

So rach...Finklestein aside (who you acknowledge I didnt even mention) so you do acknowledge there are those who manipulate the holocaust to justify the existence of Israel?

 

[phildwyer]

So rach...Finklestein aside (who you acknowledge I didnt even mention) so you do acknowledge there are those who manipulate the holocaust to justify the existence of Israel?

There was nothing in his post to suggest that. And don't take so much MDMA that your head explodes and then come on here to try to argue with adults ever again.

 

[rachamim18]

Gradnma: Yes, as with any group there going to be fringe characters who try and manipulate anything under the sun to achieve their aims. Personally, I have never met or known of a single person doing that but the law of averages would suggest is a real possibility. Do you know of people doing this?


Phil: Easy lad. They are onto us. Fridge put on that cute pink bowler, her Mod Hat as it is and has stamped both feet hard and has announced that personal insults as well as cross thread banter, as in following posters thread to thread with insults will result in ever increasing suspensions and ending in termaninations. High time for that and it will benefit us I am sure. Just remember, it might be on to Plan Daled.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: He is a lwayer.": Rarely, yes. I think his last practicing case was defending Pollard but he IS a professor of law at one of the world's premeire universities. Of course his career is built around arguing, but again, what does that have to do with anything Nino?

"Where in the OP was it incorrect and propaganda?": In that you listed an article that gave an amount that was 5 times higher than the actual amount. Yes Nino, he IS facing calls for his resignation although for the last week and a half there has been hardly a peep (really since Barak made his pronouncement).

"Injured party.": So passe Nino. Let us move on please.

"Fellow Travellers.": What NIno? I do not understand why you would call me a Traveller. I am 100 percent Jewish.

"Will only conceed that Roma and others have suffered in the Holocaust when forced to.": First, who are my "fellow Travellers?" Surely you are not suggesting ALL Jews have one opinion? Or is it only a specific demographic within Jewry that you are aiming for? Please do be more specific. Even your insults are becoming vague Nino.

Fact is, Jews (almost all I have ever known and one could just imagine that THAT number is rather large) are quite cognizant of all groups that suffered. Nor have almost all Jews ever sought to monopolise that suffering but facts are facts. No other group was targetted on such a scale. Hitler's obsession with my People dates (as far as we know but of course it preceeds it) to "Mein Kamph" where he outlines it quite clearly. Does he outline his hate of Roma and Jeh--ah's Witnesses (or any other persecuted group)?

The Nuremburg Laws targetted who Nino? He always held (always so far as dating from M. Kamph) derogatory views towards any "non-Aryan" groups but it was Jews that were his prime obsession and this is sadly a fact. He killed 1/3rd of all Jews on the planet at that time and almost single handedly destroyed Ashkenaz Culture (Yiddish almost became extinct along with its rich culture and now only very religious speak it although there groups like Workmen's Circle doing their best to change that).

"The Holcaust has been consripted and hijacked (aic) to serve Israel's cause.": Interesting that you would say that being that it is a minstay of Neo-Nazis and otherwise hateful people (such as Ahmadinejad et al). The fact is that it has not. Is Israel being manipulative if it states that its own existence will prevent another such event from ever destroying Jewry? It is being factual. Israel is a refuge for any Jew wishing to exercise that option and has saved more than a few Jewish demographics from horrible fates SINCE the Holocaust ended (Albanian Jewry, Kosovar Jewry, Azeri Jewry, Ethiopian Jewry among many other groups).

Was it really necessary to reply with this many words? You realise that liars tend to give more information than necessary - don't you? Your last paragraph is somewhat typical of your desire to control the debate and shut down any discourses that don't conform to your ideological position. Indeed, it is no better than accusing me of "anti-Semitism".

Law professors don't exactly have the finest of academic minds.

This is another typical misrepresentation

"Fellow Travellers.": What NIno? I do not understand why you would call me a Traveller. I am 100 percent Jewish.

You clearly are a raving lunatic.

 

[Grandma Death]

There was nothing in his post to suggest that. And don't take so much MDMA that your head explodes and then come on here to try to argue with adults ever again.

You're really taken by me aren't you phil? Its ok....I know you have some deep seated issues going on in that mind of yours-but really...I'm not interested in feeding your ego-go find someone else to bother there's a good lad. Either that or start one of your lesbo threads-you obviously get a real kick from them.

 

[phildwyer]

So rach...Finklestein aside (who you acknowledge I didnt even mention) so you do acknowledge there are those who manipulate the holocaust to justify the existence of Israel?

It's about time this canard was finally nailed too. I remember how in the film ""Lansky" the title character is visiting Israel, and he recalls how he tried to explain the Holocaust to his young son. As he watches the Israeli soldiers wander past, he says: "he asked me "why didn't we send our army?....""

 

[Grandma Death]

It's about time this canard was finally nailed too.

*yawn*

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Including other post, 24h.

 

[phildwyer]

Fact is, Jews (almost all I have ever known and one could just imagine that THAT number is rather large) are quite cognizant of all groups that suffered. Nor have almost all Jews ever sought to monopolise that suffering but facts are facts. No other group was targetted on such a scale. Hitler's obsession with my People dates (as far as we know but of course it preceeds it) to "Mein Kamph" where he outlines it quite clearly. Does he outline his hate of Roma and Jeh--ah's Witnesses (or any other persecuted group)?

Yes: the Communists.

You are of course correct to say that the Jews were his primary *racial* target, and that comparisons to the Roma miss the centrality of anti-semitism to both his ideology and his electoral appeal. And of course the cases of the Communists and the Jews are rather different, in that one chooses to be a Communist but not to be a Jew. And of course Hitler pretty much equated Jews and Communists. Nevertheless, it is important to remember that Communists were specifially targetted for extermination as well as Jews.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: I know that you are now curtrently under a ban (aaaaah, feels like a cool breeze saying it) but will no doubt return and it is with that in mind that I reply to the usual insult (although not for much longer I am sure)...

"Did Rachamim have to reply in so many words?" Yes, I did. I believe in full and unfettered honesty (alien concept to some).

"Does Rachamim know that liars often say much more than they have to?": Yes, I do. I took a couple of Psych courses, considered becoming an Evolutionary Psychologist. However Nino, of all people, you should know better than to try and impinge upon my character. In another possible psychological dynamic I am honest to a fault. I have an unquenchable need to tell the truth. Hope you ewnjoy it one day.



"Shut down discourse.": nino, if you quote me verbatim stock Naxzi ideology, I will of course call you on it. Do not act hurt and suprised. One thing you are NOT, is stupid. You know exactly what was being said so please do not try and ruin the thread for the rest of us with this derailing nonsense. Thanks in advance.

I will aslo politely remind you that you failed to answer a single on of my questions. Oh well...at least we have consistency on U75...

Phil: Yes, he WAS obsessed with the Communists but would he have ever signed a non-agression pact with the Jews? No, Russsians were beneath him period, Communism so far down you could not see them, and yet they stood very tall over the Jews in the minds of the ubermenschen.

While he did incarcerate a small number, comparatively, he did not run trainloads full of Commies to the ovens so I still find difference with that. It would be interesting to explore what he might have done with the Communists had he emerged victorious at the end.

 

[phildwyer]

Phil: Yes, he WAS obsessed with the Communists but would he have ever signed a non-agression pact with the Jews? No, Russsians were beneath him period, Communism so far down you could not see them, and yet they stood very tall over the Jews in the minds of the ubermenschen.

While he did incarcerate a small number, comparatively, he did not run trainloads full of Commies to the ovens so I still find difference with that. It would be interesting to explore what he might have done with the Communists had he emerged victorious at the end.

He'd have killed them. It wasn't 'a small number' he incarcerated, it was every one he could get his hands on. And he didn't sign a non-aggression pact with German Communists, but with the Soviet Union. He showed how sincere he was in that pact by his subsequent actions.

Basically he thought that Jews and Communists were two parts of the same menace, and he was determined to exterminate that menace in its entirity.

 

[Grandma Death]

Gradnma: Yes, as with any group there going to be fringe characters who try and manipulate anything under the sun to achieve their aims. Personally, I have never met or known of a single person doing that but the law of averages would suggest is a real possibility. Do you know of people doing this?

Plenty of examples of people that agree this does indeed happen and not just from 'fringe' characters either.

Rabbi Friedman told BBC Radio 4's PM programme that he was not in Tehran to debate whether the Holocaust happened or not, but to look at its lessons.

He says the Holocaust was being used to legitimise the suffering of other peoples and he wanted to break what he called a taboo on discussing it.

The main thing, he argued, was not Jewish suffering in the past but the use of the Holocaust as a "tool of commercial, military and media power".

Source

And although the Jewish people's destitute past does not tally with its powerful present, the Holocaust is still held up as the primary justification for Israel's existence. However, while it may be understandable, reference to the Holocaust to support Israel's existence is in practice outdated, inadequate and counterproductive. What's more, it is unnecessary.

Source

But the Holocaust is not just a one-time tool that Israel used to tweak the conscience of the world before the fateful vote. It is the tool that the State of Israel uses until this very day to justify its existence. Just like a beggar who displays his open wounds to drum up business, Israel coerces every VIP who visits here to run directly from the airport to the horrors of the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem.

Source