Old style religion 'Fossil fuel' theory takes a hammering with NASA finding

[reallyoldhippy]

Could you summarise the point you're trying to make here please?

I can do that! His point is that since elsewhere in the Solar System there's shit-loads of non-biological methane swilling about, it's not unreasonable to assume the same is true of Earth and the scare-mongering over oil/gas running out is just another way of exploiting us. As for peer-review, he can probably do that; there's more than one deranged scientist on the planet. Madness isn't the sole preserve of the non-scientific community.

But you knew that anyway, didn't you?

 

[WouldBe]

So if Titan's methane isn't biotic what are the chances most of the Earth's methane isn't either?

I wonder what the deep-green "Peak Oil" believers make of this one.

Pretty slim.

It may have escaped your attention but earth has an oxygen rich atmosphere and methane reacts with oxygen to produce carbon dioxide and water.

Now if the only place on earth where non-biotic methane has been detected is in volcanoes how long do you think the methane will survive considering the high temperatures involved and the lightening you quite often get in volcanic emmisions?

As volcanoes produce porous rock and are in geologically unstable areas what are the chances of quantities of methane being trapped?

 

[Good Intentions]

I can do that! His point is that since elsewhere in the Solar System there's shit-loads of non-biological methane swilling about, it's not unreasonable to assume the same is true of Earth and the scare-mongering over oil/gas running out is just another way of exploiting us. As for peer-review, he can probably do that; there's more than one deranged scientist on the planet. Madness isn't the sole preserve of the non-scientific community.

But you knew that anyway, didn't you?

Actually, don't bet on it. For instance, despite all the hooplah, there isn't a single journal on intelligent design, never mind a credible one.

 

[Wess]

I'm having a difficult time, Bigfish, deciding if you are intellectually dishonest, scientifically illiterate, or just phenomenally obtuse.

A little bit from column A and a little bit from column B .....and yeah ... column C is a given.

 

[Wess]

Enter Duke of Edinburgh, upstage, bearing Free Energy machine



Let's see. Is there a connection between hushing the "bad voices" of, er, living on a finite planet and proclaiming the "bad voices" that say practically any evil deed must have been an inside job?

I have a funny feeling you have to go back to toddlerhood to find it. But... hmmm... it does kind of work there. Especially since it (now/again/still) seems likely that bad voices are more likely to happen to people with capricious parents.

One is very simple: "You can't have any more biccies because we've run out". The other might spring from the paranoia of toddlerhood - in which the parents are the only active agents in the universe... everything bad that happens is their fault...

But then to be fair, even for someone as ancient as me, wanting to do something about climate change is connected to the ancient wellspring of teenage revolt: "The old fogeys are fucking up the world!"

Which they are. Which is a powerful narrative.

Actually I think it has more to do with (not in all cases obviously)...a) the need to belong to a "special" group, and the need to feel "special", ie; we know something you don't, or you can't see the truth like we can.
Whether this is Ego or lack of self esteem, I think it varies from Cter to CTer........
b)The other primary reason for promoting ridicules arguments I believe are attention using a CTer that we all know as an example ...Jazz, is a musician and obviously likes the attention.
There's always patterns to their posting (and to the CT behaviour generally)as well. Couldn't be bothered to go into the details but I really think the above 2 reasons do have a lot to do with why they post threads like this when all they are going to achieve is getting flamed and ridiculed.

One thing I've no doubt though .... is that all their Mums used to tell them they are "Special" little boys.

 

[Good Intentions]

We gain nothing from refusing to take out opponents seriously. Sometimes we lash out in desperation, and it doesn't say good about us, but behind all the lizardman jokes and the belittling of Hitler lies the eventual shortcomings in our understanding of our enemies and their endevours, and therein, eventually, our defeat.

 

[Good Intentions]

Not to sound humourless, but this really happens. Look at Bush's re-election - Dubya is an idiot, the Republicans are morons, the states with higher IQs vote Democrat, etc. - all of it detracting from the issues, all of it muddying the waters, leading to the eventual defeat of Kerry an 48% of America in disbelief and despair, because this couldn't possibly have happened.

 

[editor]

We gain nothing from refusing to take out opponents seriously. Sometimes we lash out in desperation, and it doesn't say good about us, but behind all the lizardman jokes and the belittling of Hitler lies the eventual shortcomings in our understanding of our enemies and their endevours, and therein, eventually, our defeat.

What are you on about?
Are you saying we should take lizards seriously?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Are you saying we should take lizards seriously?

Hell yes, i've never been eaten by a crocodile, and to try and prevent this once in a lifetime experience i take them very seriously.

 

[Good Intentions]

What are you on about?
Are you saying we should take lizards seriously?

No.

But lampooning bigfish is getting us nowhere. Listening to him doesn't either, yes, but I'm always unsettled when a circle gathers and everybody throws stones at the guy in the center.

 

[Good Intentions]

Hell yes, i've never been eaten by a crocodile, and to try and prevent this once in a lifetime experience i take them very seriously.

Your chances of getting eaten by a crocodile are only a million to one, but once is enough

 

[sparticus]

You, Bernie, Laptop and the various other debunkers could start with with taking a serious look at the 9/11 truth movement and take a look at the various 9/11 DVDs that challenge the 'official truth'. I have offered to send you free copies of these DVDs many times. But you already know they're 'bullshit', right?

Bizarrely it seems to be Fox news (1, 2, 3) that have belatedly started reporting on these DVDs and the evidence they contain.

But most of all the Debunkers should stop pretending they know what they are talking about when they clearly haven't seen or read the main 9/11 truth DVDs and books that are on the market. You see from where I am, it is the non CTers who are showing all the characteristics they accuse the CTers of. Namely being so wedded to their own world view where conspiracies like 9/11 just couldn't to be true, that they ignore any evidence that challenges this world view.

 

[Good Intentions]

Umm, this isn't a 9/11 thread.

And the psychology of conspirary theories/intelligent design/abiotic oil is entirely removed from what actual evidence exists. It's all to do with what eveidence is selected, and how there is extrapolated from there.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I've generally made a point of not joining in all the shit fights over CT around here, at least until I got fucked off at bigfish flooding perfectly good threads I was interested in with gibberish and calling me a racist, I was perfecly happy to leave you guys alone. Now, whether you or I like it or not, I am engaged.

I had a look around the 911 truth movement sites because I really wanted to understand where bigfish was getting all this abiotic oil stuff from.

A link from rense.com led me this little gem from Joe Vialls.

Russia Proves 'Peak Oil' is a Misleading Zionist Scam

Is this the kind of shit we're expected to take seriously?

 

[editor]

But most of all the Debunkers should stop pretending they know what they are talking about when they clearly haven't seen or read the main 9/11 truth DVDs and books that are on the market.

Funny how there's always a book/DVD to flog, isn't there?

 

[sparticus]

They are being given away free or at cost, doh

 

[Good Intentions]

The thrust of what I'm saying is that I've spent many, many bitter hours arguing and occasionally fighting against those cocksure of the value of their position. Exactly the same processes which allows conspiraloons to build up their dizzying dreck - conversing in circles where no challenge is given to a mindset/doctrine, erecting and triumphantly burning strawmen, glorifying one's own position and belittling of one's opponents leading to the 'revealed truth' arrogance, etc. - is something that we aren't ourselves immune to. Wess's post, where he basically says CTs are so because they didn't grow up proper, is walking down that path and is zero degrees removed from bigfish calling Bernie a racist.

 

[sparticus]

http://www.9-11commission.gov/

Is this the kind of shit we're expected to take seriously?

You see it cuts both ways

To me the likes of Kean, Zelikow and the bunch neo-con mobsters that occupy that whitehouse are no more credible that Viallis, yet previously on this thread you had no problem lumping us all together as deranged CTers

 

[Bernie Gunther]

You've got a point though Good Intentions.

 

[Good Intentions]

Edited out for the sake of the peace

 

[editor]

That might be a shock to whatreallyhappened.com

We're not going through this all over again thanks.

 

[Good Intentions]

You've got a point though Good Intentions.

Thanks. I'm glad I was able to get it through. It isn't like I don't know how you feel, and that I'm not sick and fucking tired of having to do everything perfectly all the time.

 

[Good Intentions]

We're not going through this all over again thanks.

Sure. I'll offer no competition and get rid of the link.

 

[editor]

Sure. I'll offer no competition and get rid of the link.

"Competition"? What the fuck are you on about?!!!

That link - and the issues on that site - have been discussed at truly immense length on these boards.

There's been - quite literally - tens of thousands of posts on the subject of 9/11 conspiracies, but unless there is any new evidence being provided, I have no intention of these boards being used as a one-stop shop to endlessly regurgitate the same stuff over and over and over and over again.

 

[Good Intentions]

I meant I really, really don't want to accidently start one of those discussions again, and if someone attempts to rile me into one I'll close my eyes and sit on my hands.

 

[editor]

I meant I really, really don't want to accidently start one of those discussions again, and if someone attempts to rile me into one I'll close my eyes and sit on my hands.

Errr, and the "competition" reference?

 

[Good Intentions]

Offer no competition to someone trying to argue the merits of 9/11 CT nonsense, or how they must fund the movement through sales of t-shirts, or whatever. Since I don't want to stoke the fire.

 

[editor]

Offer no competition to someone trying to argue the merits of 9/11 CT nonsense, or how they must fund the movement through sales of t-shirts, or whatever. Since I don't want to stoke the fire.

Ah, OK. I'm with you now!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Thanks. I'm glad I was able to get it through. It isn't like I don't know how you feel, and that I'm not sick and fucking tired of having to do everything perfectly all the time.

I got really fucking angry at being called a racist and went after bigfish hard with attack rhetoric on a previous occasion. The result was he stopped his shit for a good while.

It's a big dilemma though. I know that savaging him can work, at least temporarily, where reason and ignoring him don't (see the last 20 odd pages of the petroleum geologist thread for the latter) I would be happy enough to just let him get on with it if he didn't persist in getting personal about all this.

I really don't like it though, so I'm going to try ignoring him again for a while.

 

[bigfish]

I don't think some people have grasped quite how cold the estimated Titan surface temperature of -178° C is and what a difference that makes to the dynamics of methane distribution...

The idea that hydrocarbons are generated inorganically throughout the solar system was one of the penetrating insight that lead astrophysicist Thomas Gold to write his 1998 book, The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of Fossil Fuels in which he makes the point:

It would be surprising indeed if the earth had obtained its hydrocarbons only from a source that biology had taken from another carbon-bearing gas – carbon dioxide – which would have been collected from the atmosphere by photo-synthesizing organisms for manufacture into carbohydrates and then somehow reworked by geology into hydrocarbons. All this, while the planetary bodies bereft of surface life would have received their hydrocarbon gifts by purely abiogenic causes.

If petroleum and natural gas are indeed abiogenic in origin, then the idea that the world is fast approaching somekind of "tipping point" and thereafter accelerating scarcity, is obviously a deeply fraudulent one.

Here's a question for you Prof - which of the following is not known to be abundant on Titan or in the universe generally:

A. Hydrogen?

B. Carbon?

C. Squashed Jurassic fish or dinosaurs?

Any idea Balliol Boy?