Old Labour man gives great speech

[kea]

Its got nothing to do with your fake self-rightous depair at peoples addled minds.Its all to do with your inner arrogance ,that your part of the elect who are better than the 99% who may watch tv most of the time.
Its less about politics more to do with your sanctimonious nobleness.


Anyroad seeing thou you are the elect,can you give us any advice on trying to get karyuu,her and me have been circling each other for donkeys.

here she is

i don't know who the fuck that is or what relevance she has to the subject matter under discussion but your manner is not constructive and this was an interesting discussion until you arrived. fancy helping to get it back on track or do you want to piss off?

 

[swarthy thug]

i don't know who the fuck that is or what relevance she has to the subject matter under discussion but your manner is not constructive and this was an interesting discussion until you arrived. fancy helping to get it back on track or do you want to piss off?

Its got tons of relevance,the thread starter was moaning about every one ( except him of course and his mates) being vegatbles plonked in front of the box and not being intersted in HIS veiw of the world( which i happen to agree with by the way).All i was saying is that the politics is not the main germ of the thread but barkings slef-satisfied veiw of him self comperd to the rest of the human shits he depises.

And the picture is very pertinat,seeing as he clims to such wise council i thoght a bit of advice on karyuu would come in handy.

 

[RubyToogood]

I can't be arsed to go back and trawl through all the history, but swarthy thug can stop posting irrelevant and personal pictures, and everyone in general can behave and go back to discussing the issue.

 

[kea]

Its got tons of relevance,the thread starter was moaning about every one ( except him of course and his mates) being vegatbles plonked in front of the box and not being intersted in HIS veiw of the world( which i happen to agree with by the way).

but this was put to him and he addressed it and the discussion has moved on.
or didn't you bother to read the rest of the thread?

And the picture is very pertinat,seeing as he clims to such wise council i thoght a bit of advice on karyuu would come in handy.

who the fuck is karyuu and why the fuck is she relevant to this thread?

 

[swarthy thug]

but this was put to him and he addressed it and the discussion has moved on.
or didn't you bother to read the rest of the thread?


No he did not he just said i needed a fuck.Any road im leaving this thread for the adults.

 

[RubyToogood]

The main problem with that picture is that it's a picture of a private individual who hasn't given permission for it to be posted here. It seems a bit below the belt to me.

Anyway.

Great speech, huh?

 

[kea]

No he did not he just said i needed a fuck.Any road im leaving this thread for the adults.

other people than you post on this thread you know. perhaps you would like to contemplate the following posts -

the people are all stupid shallow cunts eh?

No, I wouldnt say that they're just a product of society. I just find it frustrating that people aren't more angry about this and that they'll probably get more wound up watching tonights episode of Eastenders!

I dunno

Yours,

Disallusioned of Leeds

what exactly should people then do though? i think about the world and so on quite a bit but i'm buggered if i know what i can do to stop all this shit happening. if the whole country rose up as one then possibly - but an awful lot of people feel the same way as me, don't like where things are heading, but simply feel that they can't do anything about it.
maybe instead of judging people as being shallow and vapid, you should look at why people feel so disenfranchised and powerless?

it wasnt my intention to judge people as shallow and im sorry if I gave that impression - its hard not to be angry at most things when this sort of thing happens....I dont have all the answers or even most of them, but I do know that people need to be more aware of this, so perhaps - as I suggested it might be worth forwarding these two speeches on to everyone you know. Its a start.

thence followed a discussion. it's quite interesting. you might want to read it.

 

[editor]

And the picture is very pertinat,seeing as he clims to such wise council i thoght a bit of advice on karyuu would come in handy.

I'm not impressed with your disruptive conduct on this thread.

Please explain the relevancy of the person's picture you posted up.

 

[swarthy thug]

I'm not impressed with your disruptive conduct on this thread.

Please explain the relevancy of the person's picture you posted up.

Well it was well of target,i just need to get in to the jist of this place i think.

 

[FreddyB]

It's a bit like real life, but you read and write instead of speak!

 

[Barking_Mad]

Its got tons of relevance,the thread starter was moaning about every one ( except him of course and his mates) being vegatbles plonked in front of the box and not being intersted in HIS veiw of the world( which i happen to agree with by the way).All i was saying is that the politics is not the main germ of the thread but barkings slef-satisfied veiw of him self comperd to the rest of the human shits he depises.

And the picture is very pertinat,seeing as he clims to such wise council i thoght a bit of advice on karyuu would come in handy.

Look, I apologised way back in this thread for sounding 'up myself' before you stuck your fat oar in. It wasnt intentional I was just frustrated and angry at the lack of general interest in what in my, and no doubt many other peoples views, are important subjects. Meanwhile many people, and tv viewing figures show this!) will sit down and be entertained by what in my opinion is fun, but ultimately meaningless and irrelevant drivel. I went on to say that there are very few programmes on television that make people sit up and think about subjects and situations.

People will sit and read fashion magazines and read about the lives of celebrities and other assorted 'important people' but many won't take the time to learn more about themselves and their fellow human beings. There was a time when Sunday supplements would run photojournals and stories about the lives of people in far flung places, people trapped in desperate situations, but now the vast majority of these supplements are filled with meaningless, pointless dross - unless you think the sex life of Britney Spears is somehow the most important thing happening on planet earth or that this seasons 'in colour' is putrid green.

No, Im not saying im perfect, nowhere near, but Im making what I believe to be a true observation. If you dont like it then make a decent argument to show me Im wrong, I might well be. But dont insult me and then come crawling back trying to be all diplmoatic when you realise you 'may have sinned'.

 

[Barking_Mad]

other people than you post on this thread you know. perhaps you would like to contemplate the following posts -

thence followed a discussion. it's quite interesting. you might want to read it.

Thanks Kea.

 

[swarthy thug]

Look, I apologised way back in this thread for sounding 'up myself' before you stuck your fat oar in. It wasnt intentional I was just frustrated and angry at the lack of general interest in what in my, and no doubt many other peoples views, are important subjects. Meanwhile many people, and tv viewing figures show this!) will sit down and be entertained by what in my opinion is fun, but ultimately meaningless and irrelevant drivel. I went on to say that there are very few programmes on television that make people sit up and think about subjects and situations.

People will sit and read fashion magazines and read about the lives of celebrities and other assorted 'important people' but many won't take the time to learn more about themselves and their fellow human beings. There was a time when Sunday supplements would run photojournals and stories about the lives of people in far flung places, people trapped in desperate situations, but now the vast majority of these supplements are filled with meaningless, pointless dross - unless you think the sex life of Britney Spears is somehow the most important thing happening on planet earth or that this seasons 'in colour' is putrid green.

No, Im not saying im perfect, nowhere near, but Im making what I believe to be a true observation. If you dont like it then make a decent argument to show me Im wrong, I might well be. But dont insult me and then come crawling back trying to be all diplmoatic when you realise you 'may have sinned'.

I never crawled back to anyone in my life im only being diplomatic cos i want to continue to post on hear,i still belive what a belive( your genarel distate for the shits),so we have to agree to disagree.
And if you think that ive insulted you you need a broader back pal.

 

[kea]

Thanks Kea.

no probs. i just wish this guy would learn to read!!

 

[Barking_Mad]

I never crawled back to anyone in my life im only being diplomatic cos i want to continue to post on hear,i still belive what a belive( your genarel distate for the shits),so we have to agree to disagree.
And if you think that ive insulted you you need a broader back pal.

Diplomatic eh? Nothing to do with being threatened with a ban by site admin for posting pointless images then? And I didnt call people 'shits' those were your words, not mine.

Anyway back to the actual subject - do you have any comment to make rather than just "agereeing to disagree"? I think society is in the main condusive to people looking after 'No.1' rather than each other, and surrounding ourselves with objects and desires which in the end dont really add much intrinsic value to our lives. We're bombared with advertisements telling us how buying their brand of deoderant will make us more attrative to women, how this or that face cream will make you look 10 years younger etc.. etc...

All this is in my opinion a distraction from who we really are and and what is important. This suits the government of course as whilst we're all worrying about pointless guff and keeping the economy going they're stripping away our liberties left, right and centre. That's not the only likely reason for the disallusionment in politics. Politicians have used and abused the power we gave them and have taken even more powers as people have become more disallusioned and uninterested in them. Having said that I do think there are many people who like me are sat frustrated and angry, I dare say many more became interested in political issues after Iraq, but the whole terrorism thing has in my view passed by with largely little input from the general public or any questioning of them by the media.

Like I sad before, Im just like many people and looking for answers, but if you dont ask questions you're not likely to find any.........

 

[davgraham]

Eh? Internment was wound down by the mid-70s nearly 20 years before the start of the present peace process.

your chronology is correct - it took that long for the policy of 'politics' to win out over that of the 'armalite'.


HM govt were playing a long game [actually over 600 years]

Since you are on the spot - what are the chances for a revival of the 'armalite' wing?

Gra

 

[jiggajagga]

Look, I apologised way back in this thread for sounding 'up myself' before you stuck your fat oar in. It wasnt intentional I was just frustrated and angry at the lack of general interest in what in my, and no doubt many other peoples views, are important subjects. Meanwhile many people, and tv viewing figures show this!) will sit down and be entertained by what in my opinion is fun, but ultimately meaningless and irrelevant drivel. I went on to say that there are very few programmes on television that make people sit up and think about subjects and situations.

People will sit and read fashion magazines and read about the lives of celebrities and other assorted 'important people' but many won't take the time to learn more about themselves and their fellow human beings. There was a time when Sunday supplements would run photojournals and stories about the lives of people in far flung places, people trapped in desperate situations, but now the vast majority of these supplements are filled with meaningless, pointless dross - unless you think the sex life of Britney Spears is somehow the most important thing happening on planet earth or that this seasons 'in colour' is putrid green.

No, Im not saying im perfect, nowhere near, but Im making what I believe to be a true observation. If you dont like it then make a decent argument to show me Im wrong, I might well be. But dont insult me and then come crawling back trying to be all diplmoatic when you realise you 'may have sinned'.

Couldn't agree more Bark. Many will agree that the speech by the Labour MP was a great speech but how many would have even known it had happened if I (or someone like me who is interested in politics) didn't take the time to watch the debate or trawl through Hansard for the info?

If less and less are watching less and less politics on TV ( which is a sad fact) then how can we have a more informed society?
Why not just pass out the 'Victory' gin was it(?) and the Soma to the masses and have done with democracy?

 

[poster342002]

Im just like many people and looking for answers, but if you dont ask questions you're not likely to find any.........

Amen to that. My sentiments exactly.

 

[Idris2002]

Since you are on the spot - what are the chances for a revival of the 'armalite' wing?

Gra

Going by what I've heard I doubt there's much chance of that.

The killers of Bert McCartney are about up to the level of stabbing people to death in the alleys, but the kind of operations the 'ra used to mount are beyond them. Apart from anything else they're not people you'd trust to watch your back.


Also, the govt in London is planning to end the system whereby NI gets more from the treasury than other UK regions, and a couple of military posts in North Belfast are going to be dismantled in the near future. Which suggests that the long game has payed off for Westminster.

 

[jiggajagga]

The pressure mounts on Blair as influential committe criticises new terror law going through parliament.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4297039.stm

 

[scawenb]

Did anyone actually watch the debate?

In her summing-up Hazel Blears for the Government made lots of nice comments about any bit of anyones speech that wasn't too critical except for her dear Honorable Friend, Brian Sedgmore:

"I was saddened by the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch (Mr. Sedgemore). I acknowledge his strength of feeling, but if that was his last speech in the House, it is a shame that he could not have spoken about a more constructive subject and offered something more positive. I really felt that his contribution was very sad indeed—[Interruption.] "

What the Hansard doesn't quote is what the "Interuption" was. It was Mr Sedgemore shouting back at her:

"You poor, pathetic, human being".

 

[Idris2002]

I'd have used stronger language than that if I'd encountered that level of patronisation.

She should be thinking about her karma . . . unless she and Tony want to be reincarnated as dung beetles.

 

[poster342002]

Did anyone actually watch the debate?

In her summing-up Hazel Blears for the Government made lots of nice comments about any bit of anyones speech that wasn't too critical except for her dear Honorable Friend, Brian Sedgmore:

"I was saddened by the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch (Mr. Sedgemore). I acknowledge his strength of feeling, but if that was his last speech in the House, it is a shame that he could not have spoken about a more constructive subject and offered something more positive. I really felt that his contribution was very sad indeed—[Interruption.] "

What more "constructive" and "positive" contribution would that have been then? Something about how wonderful our Dear Leader is or something?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Did anyone actually watch the debate?

In her summing-up Hazel Blears for the Government made lots of nice comments about any bit of anyones speech that wasn't too critical except for her dear Honorable Friend, Brian Sedgmore:

"I was saddened by the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch (Mr. Sedgemore). I acknowledge his strength of feeling, but if that was his last speech in the House, it is a shame that he could not have spoken about a more constructive subject and offered something more positive. I really felt that his contribution was very sad indeed—[Interruption.] "

What the Hansard doesn't quote is what the "Interuption" was. It was Mr Sedgemore shouting back at her:

"You poor, pathetic, human being".

I think its time that puppet on a string Blears was told a few home truths about herself.......

*opens a bottle of wine*

Right..........

 

[X-77]

Did anyone actually watch the debate?

In her summing-up Hazel Blears for the Government made lots of nice comments about any bit of anyones speech that wasn't too critical except for her dear Honorable Friend, Brian Sedgmore:

"I was saddened by the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch (Mr. Sedgemore). I acknowledge his strength of feeling, but if that was his last speech in the House, it is a shame that he could not have spoken about a more constructive subject and offered something more positive. I really felt that his contribution was very sad indeed—[Interruption.] "

What the Hansard doesn't quote is what the "Interuption" was. It was Mr Sedgemore shouting back at her:

"You poor, pathetic, human being".

Nice one Brian

Hazel fucking Blears, what a waste of fucking space the blairite suck-up slimey cow that she is. Where the fuck do they find these pathetic excuses for human beings anyway?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I'd have used stronger language than that if I'd encountered that level of patronisation.

She should be thinking about her karma . . . unless she and Tony want to be reincarnated as dung beetles.

Dung beetles are useful creatures. This means that a soul reincarnated as a dung beetle is well on the way to a better life next time. On the other hand, being reincarnated as a particularly unpleasant strain of anal warts virus sounds right up their alley.

 

[fela fan]

what exactly should people then do though? i think about the world and so on quite a bit but i'm buggered if i know what i can do to stop all this shit happening. if the whole country rose up as one then possibly - but an awful lot of people feel the same way as me, don't like where things are heading, but simply feel that they can't do anything about it.
maybe instead of judging people as being shallow and vapid, you should look at why people feel so disenfranchised and powerless?

Just come to this thread, but feel i need to reply to you kea before i continue with it.

Barking i feel was making an observation more than a judgement. What he says is true.

What you say is true and needs addressing. What can people do? Well, here are two things: stop buying the newspapers, and stop watching television news. When this happens in sufficient numbers, then those that are affected will soon change things because the pound notes will fail to be landing in their pockets.

People do feel disenfranchised, but it's a con to feel there's nothing we can do. Firstly we need to replace this ingrained negative mindset with a positive one, a 'can do' attitude. We can still watch our pap on the telly but we should actively in our own brains apportion x amount of time a week into proactively being positive, and working out how we can effect change.

My two examples to me are the most simple and obvious starting point. The british press (can't comment from experience re the US press) are a disgrace. A fucking disgrace. They have neglected their duty for many years now, and are a big reason why our country is rapidly going to the dogs.

 

[fela fan]

Reading those speeches inparticular and the rest of this thread has made me emotional in an angry, scared, disgusted way.

The two issues on this thread, the governments pursuit of despotism and the public appathy towards it are maddening but without the appathy it wouldn't be happening.

My old man always used to say that the TV was a mind control device designed to keep us passive and our eyes off the ball. I always used to think he was a paranoid cornish communist, I'm beggining to think he was right

You've hit it there freddyb, re the two issues. And your old man is/was very wise. The telly is the best weapon leaders in democracies have.

But things are always down to the people. Via the press, leading to the leaders.

Feeling disenfranchised, feeling angry, bitter, whatever are all negative responses to a very negative situation, and will just let those criminals continue to fuck with our lives and laws.

Britain is entering a south africa style political cycle, and therefore they need to avail themselves of what mandela and his people used to do.

If the people don't want this law, they had better speak now. Feeling negative is the only way to fail. BE POSITIVE!

 

[fela fan]

'Satan's Dream Box' as Bill Hicks calls the tv.

Problem with tv is that it rarely makes you think. It encourages passiveness and you to empty your brain and emote on a very basic level. I can (obivously) only speak from personal experience, but only recently have I become really aware of this to the point where I cant take half of the stuff seriously and the other half is beneath contempt. Very rarely is there something really worth watching.

As an example of this disconnection I was watching the tsunami on the tv over the christmas period and I suspect like most people who saw it was quite deeply moved. After about half an hour that particular night I flicked from BBC News 24 to ITV and was greeted by Chris Tarrant offering someone the chance to win £1m on Who Wants to Be A Millionairre.

Out of what I can only assume was morbid horror I flicked back and forth between the two channels for a good 5 minutes - people dying, someone winning money - people dying someone winning money - Chris Tarrant handing over a £125,000 cheque, bloke with no house......

I felt my skin creep at the idea that someone could win a million quid for answering a question correctly whilst others had just lost what very little they had in the first place. I know it might be obvious and I really cant write down exactly how I felt because I dont have the words to emote how totally fucked up it all seemed. And I know, people will say, "That's life" but thats just acceptance of living in a shit hole and Id like to think we all might be able to change that........so back to square 1 again.

Great post mate.

I personally gave up on tv when i left england - 14 years ago. What you have illustrated with your example perfectly describes the variety of insanity that humans - rich humans - are capable of.

It's why the UN universal declaration of human rights is so abused by so many politicians in so many countries. We the people just don't care enough about people we never meet.

 

[jiggajagga]

I think Adorno basically got it right when he:-

argued that capitalism fed people with the products of a 'culture industry' - the opposite of 'true' art - to keep them passively satisfied and politically apathetic.

Adorno saw that capitalism had not become more precarious or close to collapse, as Marx had predicted. Instead, it had seemingly become more entrenched. Where Marx had focussed on economics, Adorno placed emphasis on the role of culture in securing the status quo.

Popular culture was identified as the reason for people's passive satisfaction and lack of interest in overthrowing the capitalist system.

Adorno suggested that culture industries churn out a debased mass of unsophisticated, sentimental products which have replaced the more 'difficult' and critical art forms which might lead people to actually question social life.

False needs are cultivated in people by the culture industries. These are needs which can be both created and satisfied by the capitalist system, and which replace people's 'true' needs - freedom, full expression of human potential and creativity, genuine creative happiness.

Commodity fetishism (promoted by the marketing, advertising and media industries) means that social relations and cultural experiences are objectified in terms of money. We are delighted by something because of how much it cost.

Popular media and music products are characterised by standardisation (they are basically formulaic and similar) and pseudo-individualisation (incidental differences make them seem distinctive, but they're not). (Boy/Girl Bands all the same? My point.)

Products of the culture industry may be emotional or apparently moving, but Adorno sees this as cathartic - we might seek some comfort in a sad film or song, have a bit of a cry, and then feel restored again.

Boiled down to its most obvious modern-day application, the argument would be that television leads people away from talking to each other or questioning the oppression in their lives. Instead they get up and go to work (if they are employed), come home and switch on TV, absorb TV's nonsense until bedtime, and then the daily cycle starts again.