Oklahoma botches execution after governer denies victim right to know source of drugs...

[toggle]

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm slightly surprised there's no US company willing and able to make sell the products they "need", surely in the home of free-market capitalism this situation can't last long.

(and just in case JC3 is reading, I'm not seeking to make an anti-american point, more an anti-capitalist one. British companies are well known to be active in arms manufacture and worldwide sales, so making money from death is not a uniquely US occupation)

not sure if it was ever tested, but there were eu regs that specify an export ban on anything that they know will be used to torture. i think they have self banned sales of their drugs under this.

 

[andysays]

yes.

there are a limited number of legitimate suppliers of those drugs

those suppliers do not sell to people who will use them to execute someone

they require their buyers to guarantee they will not pass on those drugs to people who will use them to execute someone

therefore there is no legitimate channel for supplying those drugs for executions.

so they have to experiment with other drugs, or look to black market suppliers

Thanks for your clarification too.

So presumably these drugs are patented (explaining why legitimate manufacture is limited to a few companies) and they have a legitimate purpose, their use in execution just a sideline.

 

[dylanredefined]

It's not made anywhere else. TRIPS hurts the US for once.

Would like to know what they use in China, but it's a state secret I think.

Don't they just shoot people?

 

[DotCommunist]

with a top secret gun

 

[toggle]

Thanks for your clarification too.

So presumably these drugs are patented (explaining why legitimate manufacture is limited to a few companies) and they have a legitimate purpose, their use in execution just a sideline.

yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_thiopental

Sodium thiopental is a core medicine in the World Health Organization's "Essential Drugs List", which is a list of minimum medical needs for a basic healthcare system.[3] It was previously the first of three drugs administered during most lethal injections in the United States, but the US manufacturer Hospira stopped manufacturing the drug and the EU banned the export of the drug for this purpose.

 

[andysays]

yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_thiopental

Sodium thiopental is a core medicine in the World Health Organization's "Essential Drugs List", which is a list of minimum medical needs for a basic healthcare system.[3] It was previously the first of three drugs administered during most lethal injections in the United States, but the US manufacturer Hospira stopped manufacturing the drug and the EU banned the export of the drug for this purpose.

Thanks for all the info. I now feel I know far more about the process of lethal injection than is necessary or even healthy

 

[toggle]

Thanks for all the info. I now feel I know far more about the process of lethal injection than is healthy

i know i do.

that came with the territory after I shacked up with bakunin.

one of his major sources of earnings is writing about botched executions.

 

[SpineyNorman]

It's not made anywhere else. TRIPS hurts the US for once.

Would like to know what they use in China, but it's a state secret I think.

A bullet to the back of the head usually isn't it? (Making sure not to damage those valuable retinas)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A bullet to the back of the head usually isn't it? (Making sure not to damage those valuable retinas)

I believe so, yes. I have read an opinion from a neuroscientist that this is probably the most 'humane' way to kill someone. He said that they will probably lose consciousness before the pain of the bullet entering the head can be processed.

I agree with an earlier poster that arguing over methods is a distraction really, but I do find it utterly bizarre that they go to such enormous lengths to produce a 'humane' method and fuck it up so badly. Lethal injection as carried out by the US with their cocktail of drugs is a drawn-out ordeal even if goes to plan.

 

[dylanredefined]

A bullet to the back of the head usually isn't it? (Making sure not to damage those valuable retinas)

Used to be now moved on lethal injections like America.

 

[Bakunin]

i know i do.

that came with the territory after I shacked up with bakunin.

one of his major sources of earnings is writing about botched executions.

It's a part of my repertoire, yes.

I've spent a couple of hours today sending pitches on the subject, as it happens.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Used to be now moved on lethal injections like America.

Ah right - I was thinking back to that English bloke whose name escapes me - a muslim guy who was caught with loads of smack. I know he got the bullet - they must have changed very recently. Imagine they just make their own - historically the Chinese state hasn't been too fussed about breaking patents.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I believe so, yes. I have read an opinion from a neuroscientist that this is probably the most 'humane' way to kill someone. He said that they will probably lose consciousness before the pain of the bullet entering the head can be processed.

I agree with an earlier poster that arguing over methods is a distraction really, but I do find it utterly bizarre that they go to such enormous lengths to produce a 'humane' method and fuck it up so badly. Lethal injection as carried out by the US with their cocktail of drugs is a drawn-out ordeal even if goes to plan.

I think they're more concerned about the impact it has on the executioner tbh

If it was about being humane even if they insisted on lethal injection I can think of less painful ways of doing it and I'm no doctor - a massive smack overdose wouldn't be a bad start.

You're right though, it is a distraction from the real issue - the death penalty itself

 

[Bakunin]

I think they're more concerned about the impact it has on the executioner tbh

Executioners and official witnesses, yes. There's quite a high rate of mental and emotional problems among executioners, not to mention that a number of them have committed suicide.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Executioners and official witnesses, yes. There's quite a high rate of mental and emotional problems among executioners, not to mention that a number of them have committed suicide.

Does lethal injection help this?

 

[Bakunin]

Does lethal injection help this?

It gives the appearance of a calm and painless death, but only the appearance. The standard three-drug combination begins with sodium pentathol to knock them out, then pancuronium bromide to implode the lungs and potassium chlorate to stop the heart. Botches in inserting the needles, blocked intravenous lines, inserting the needles into muscles rather than veins and suchlike are common. One inmate was strapped on the table for over an hour until the executioners found two veins healthy enough to use and they only found them by doing a cut-down into his arm and leg.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I agree with an earlier poster that arguing over methods is a distraction really, but I do find it utterly bizarre that they go to such enormous lengths to produce a 'humane' method ....

Do they? I've heard of such bizarre things as the governor of Texas supplying execution drugs in exchange for football tickets to states short on their supply.

 

[frogwoman]

If I was going to be executed I would prefer to be shot. Fuck this clinical shit

 

[frogwoman]

Executioners and official witnesses, yes. There's quite a high rate of mental and emotional problems among executioners, not to mention that a number of them have committed suicide.

I'm not surprised I would be more worried if they didn't have any mental problems tbh.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Do you hate America or something?

</Johnny Cannock logic>

The logic is this: this thread is of a certain species. Call it 'Ain't Americal Awful?' A Triple A thread.

A thread is started about American guns/execution/obesity etc, then everyone posts about how awful it is. No doubt each individual story is probably about something deplorable, but it happens with such regularity concerning the US as opposed to any other country, that it seems like a kind of sport.

China has three to four times the US population, an economy almost as large if not larger by now, has become a major player on the world scene - and is rife with examples of corruption, unfairness, negligence, incompetence, etc etc. But almost no threads about it. Almost no threads like that about almost any other country.

It may well be a U75 tradition to do this; but it's a tradition with me when it happens, to do this.

Not because Americans are so good; but because nobody in the world is so good.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

China has three to four times the US population, an economy almost as large if not larger by now, has become a major player on the world scene - and is rife with examples of corruption, unfairness, negligence, incompetence, etc etc. But almost no threads about it. Almost no threads like that about almost any other country.

I've wondered at this too. In the few threads on China you'll see posters trying to argue that anyone who criticizes China for doing exactly what the UK and US has done are being racist. If you're going to criticize one superpower when it abuses its power, you need to criticize them all.

 

[andysays]

The logic is this: this thread is of a certain species. Call it 'Ain't Americal Awful?' A Triple A thread.

A thread is started about American guns/execution/obesity etc, then everyone posts about how awful it is. No doubt each individual story is probably about something deplorable, but it happens with such regularity concerning the US as opposed to any other country, that it seems like a kind of sport.

China has three to four times the US population, an economy almost as large if not larger by now, has become a major player on the world scene - and is rife with examples of corruption, unfairness, negligence, incompetence, etc etc. But almost no threads about it. Almost no threads like that about almost any other country.

It may well be a U75 tradition to do this; but it's a tradition with me when it happens, to do this.

Not because Americans are so good; but because nobody in the world is so good.

And there was me naively thinking it was an "Ain't Killing People in the name of Justice (especially when it's done in such a botched fashion) Awful" thread.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

And there was me naively thinking it was an "Ain't Killing People in the name of Justice (especially when it's done in such a botched fashion) Awful" thread.

It most definitely is that. However, it's also one of numerous Triple A threads. That was my point.

 

[Bakunin]

I'm not surprised I would be more worried if they didn't have any mental problems tbh.

Considering that an executioner is essentially a contract killer with a legal mandate to kill, I'm not surprised either. An executioner is essentially an assassin working as a public servant rather than as a private contractor or because they're gang-affiliated. They're still hired to dispose of people their employers want rid of, just the same.

Did a blog post on this a while ago, come to think of it:

http://robertwalshwriter.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/hitmen-hangmen-and-hypocrisy/

 

[SpineyNorman]

I think the main reason why you don't get 'brutal Chinese execution' threads is because we don't get to hear about it - which is probably down to a combination of US centric news sources and a distinct lack of openness on the part of the Chinese government. I don't think it says anything good about China at all.

 

[SpineyNorman]

It most definitely is that. However, it's also one of numerous Triple A threads. That was my point.

Actually it's an AAUDPA thread. While I despise their use of the death penalty I don't hate America. I do hate its government but then again I hate my own government and that doesn't mean I hate Britain or the British.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It gives the appearance of a calm and painless death, but only the appearance. The standard three-drug combination begins with sodium pentathol to knock them out, then pancuronium bromide to implode the lungs and potassium chlorate to stop the heart. Botches in inserting the needles, blocked intravenous lines, inserting the needles into muscles rather than veins and suchlike are common. One inmate was strapped on the table for over an hour until the executioners found two veins healthy enough to use and they only found them by doing a cut-down into his arm and leg.

Yes, that's what I thought. Maximum trauma for everyone.

 

[butchersapron]

And there was me naively thinking it was an "Ain't Killing People in the name of Justice (especially when it's done in such a botched fashion) Awful" thread.

You'll note also that not a single person has mentioned americans or engaged in anti-americanism on this thread. In fact the only person mentioning americans and demanding others engage in anti-mericanism is the incredible sulk himself.

 

[twentythreedom]

America is fucking shit though

 

[Pickman's model]

If its gonna be done, may as well be done good.

i think the actual quote from macbeth is

If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well | It were done quickly.

(Macbeth I vii, 1-2)