With a glint in the eye no doubt.
Oklahoma botches execution after governer denies victim right to know source of drugs...
- Thread starter Bahnhof Strasse
- Start date
With a glint in the eye no doubt.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
'I am considerably more opposed to murder than you.'
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Pretty awful. 
ShakespearO
Well-Known Member
As someone who is firmly against the death penalty, in this case I do think it is poetic justice. I have no sympathy for the convicted chap - his eventual demise is actually quite amusing.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You don't really sound *that* firmly opposed to the death penalty to be quite frank.
Pretty awful.
Do you hate America or something?
</Johnny Cannock logic>
Botched executions are so much lol aren't they?
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
It's a failed experiment. Execution methods are always refined by means of trial-and-error simply because there isn't any other way to do it. The only way to test a new method or test tweaks of an existing one is to kill somebody and see if your new idea works. If it does, it becomes part of the protocol. If it doesn't then it's discarded and the media spokespeople start on damage control.
To be honest the whole idea of humane killing, whether it's acceptable to still kill people provided the State is nice about it, is really a distraction from the bigger debate about abolition or retention of the death penalty. It's a smokescreen that the pro-death penalty lobby find less difficult to deal with than discussing whether or not it should happen at all.
To be honest the whole idea of humane killing, whether it's acceptable to still kill people provided the State is nice about it, is really a distraction from the bigger debate about abolition or retention of the death penalty. It's a smokescreen that the pro-death penalty lobby find less difficult to deal with than discussing whether or not it should happen at all.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
'and I'm going to prove it by furiously masturbating over an exceptionally cruel example of state sanctioned killing'
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Do you hate America or something?
</Johnny Cannock logic>
Botched executions are so much lol aren't they?
Actually they are hilarious. The idea that I should care that someone who commited the crimes he did then dies horribly and I should be disgusted by this
baffles me. Though American justice system baffles me. We want to kill this murderous piece of scum. We will first give him a trial where he gets incompetent defence leading to endless appeals then take so long to make a decision on wether we are going to kill him. He might well have changed totally ,but, we still going to kill him because?
Then to top it off have bizarre ideas on how to kill people.butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Did you just argue yourself out of your first point whilst you were posting that?Actually they are hilarious. The idea that I should care that someone who commited the crimes he did then dies horribly and I should be disgusted by this
baffles me. Though American justice system baffles me. We want to kill this murderous piece of scum. We will first give him a trial where he gets incompetent defence leading to endless appeals then take so long to make a decision on wether we are going to kill him. He might well have changed totally ,but, we still going to kill him because?
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Probably
. I know I should be against the death penalty ,but, sometimes I just want bad things to happen to bad people.
.
"As someone who opposes the DP, I fully support the DP, the crueller the better tbh"
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Do you hate America or something?
</Johnny Cannock logic>
I'd rather not be used as a bludgeon to beat on another poster. If you have a point to make to JC2, I suggest you address him directly.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Out of interest, does anyone know why they are experimenting with different methods of execution, even to the extent of trying new combinations of chemicals to see what their combined effect might be?
Surely there has been enough world-wide research by now to come up with a variety of cheap/effective/quick (I'm deliberately avoiding using the word humane) ways of executing people that there's really no need to find additional ones.
Someone cynical might suspect there is an extra agenda here, like the opportunity for someone to make an increased profit or develop new products with military applications...
Actually they are hilarious. The idea that I should care that someone who commited the crimes he did then dies horribly and I should be disgusted by this
baffles me. Though American justice system baffles me. We want to kill this murderous piece of scum. We will first give him a trial where he gets incompetent defence leading to endless appeals then take so long to make a decision on wether we are going to kill him. He might well have changed totally ,but, we still going to kill him because?
This is some definition of the word hilarious I'm not aware of.
I'm no bleading heart but as you point out yourself, the system's barbaric. Not finding it particularly funny doesn't mean someone's some kind of wet liberal.
Fair dos.
Those damn Americans: what will they get up to next?!
^ This. WTF is this supposed to mean. Discussing US news = America bashing?
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wobbly
the drugs they have used are supplied by european companies (or companies that do too much business in europe to piss off that market) who won't sell to anyone who won't guarantee they aren't resold to be used for executions. they literally cannot buy those drugs legitimately now.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
There is a method that would be virtually painless, at least during the actual execution anyway. There'll never be a way to remove the mental suffering of a a prisoner and their family going through the waiting and the appeals and the court rulings that mean one it'll happen, then it's been postponed, then it's back on again, but using a gas chamber and using nitrogen gas instead of the standard cyanide would be far less painful as the effects of nitrogen gas are equally lethal but less agonising for the prisoner.
Unfortunately, the more hawkish part of the pro-death penalty lobby have been known to hold that executions actually should be painful and that the inmate should be made to suffer up to a point as, in their eyes, it's the 'eye for an eye' thing and also that they believe if death itself isn't a deterrent, then a painful death might be. Ridiculous idea and certainly not supported by anecdotal or statistical evidence, but that tends to form the basis of that hawkish position.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Which is why there are strong rumours that they go to dodgy, backstreet pharmaceutical companies who may or may not supply properly-made and quality-controlled drugs. Hence the decision to try and conceal where the drugs are being obtained and to have to experiment with drugs never designed or intended for use in executions. One of the other favoured tactics against the boycott is for States to threaten to reinstate worse methods of execution that have already been discarded such as the electric chair, the firing squad and Missouri recently threatened to return to using the gas chamber if they couldn't get the drugs they wanted to carry on using lethal injection.
andysays
Love and solidarity
There's too many won'ts etc in that for me to make sure I've understood (my comprehension probs, not yours)
Are you saying that drugs which were previously used for lethal injection are no longer available so they have to find an alternative if they still wish to execute that way?
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Yes, European drug companies won't supply the US penal system with the drugs previously used (a combination of sodium pentathol, pancuronium bromide and potassium chlorate_. So states are having to try new drugs in either different two or three-drug combinations, or try a single, much larger dose of one drug such as Nembutal, Propofol or Midazolone.
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wobbly
yes.
there are a limited number of legitimate suppliers of those drugs
those suppliers do not sell to people who will use them to execute someone
they require their buyers to guarantee they will not pass on those drugs to people who will use them to execute someone
therefore there is no legitimate channel for supplying those drugs for executions.
so they have to experiment with other drugs, or look to black market suppliers
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
european companies who make phenobarbitol refuse to sell it to the yanqui state ho will use it for judicial murder iirc- but whats to stop them shopping elsewhere?
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
As well as being painless, it's supposedly quite a pleasurable experience, akin to feeling drunk.
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wobbly
they will not supply to anyone who won't follow their rules. you want the drugs, you agree it won't be passed on to executioners. get caught doing so, get added to the 'no supply' list.
it will tell you a lot that himself and i have discussed this, but he's seen reports of some states looking to use out of date drugs (which might be ineffective) or purchasing from the kind of source that also sells discount viagra
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
It's not made anywhere else. TRIPS hurts the US for once.
Would like to know what they use in China, but it's a state secret I think.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
My best guess would be licensing. If a drug company has exclusive rights to make certain drugs then nobody else can make them. If that company refuses to sell them for executions and makes customers guarantee they won't sell them on to prisons and Departments of Corrections then the supply dries up.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Thanks for the clarification.
I'm slightly surprised there's no US company willing and able to make sell the products they "need", surely in the home of free-market capitalism this situation can't last long.
(and just in case JC3 is reading, I'm not seeking to make an anti-american point, more an anti-capitalist one. British companies are well known to be active in arms manufacture and worldwide sales, so making money from death is not a uniquely US occupation)
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
It's all about the acid, man:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPS_Agreement
eta: Bitching about TRIPS is anti-American, cunts would rather protect their greenbacks than allow HIV people in Africa to live.
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