DNA is a lot easier to plant at a crime scene than fingerprints.
Ohio Screws up Another Execution
- Thread starter Yuwipi Woman
- Start date
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Thing is, no method of execution is completely problem free.
Hanging was mentioned, in Iraq when they hanged one of Saddam's aids they got the drop or the length of rope wrong and decapitated the victim.
Lethal injection - can't always find a vein.
Electrocution - perhaps not good electrical contacts
Firing squad - what if they miss
Its an imperfect science.
Hanging was mentioned, in Iraq when they hanged one of Saddam's aids they got the drop or the length of rope wrong and decapitated the victim.
Lethal injection - can't always find a vein.
Electrocution - perhaps not good electrical contacts
Firing squad - what if they miss
Its an imperfect science.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Hanging is a perfectly good method as long as it's done properly, by an experienced and competent executioner.
The Pierrepoint family spring to mind:
http://www.crimemagazine.com/08/hangmen,1026-8.htm
Hanging, if done by what's known as the 'English Method', is by far the quickest, cleanest and most humane method of execution that there is. The entire execution can be over in seconds, not minutes. The fastest hanging, indeed, the fastest execution on record, was carried out by British hangman Albert Pierrepoint (assisted by Syd Dernley) when they hanged murderer James Inglis at Strangeways prison in Manchester. The entire process, from Inglis having his arms strapped behind his back to Inglis hanging dead on the rope, was timed and the execution lasted only seven seconds from start to finish.
Unfortunately, American hangmen have a long legacy of being incompetent, inhumane and sometimes drunk on duty. Also, American prisons use the wrong kind of rope, the wrong sort of noose and take minutes to do a job that should only take seconds if the executioners know what they're doing. Unfortunately, and the American hangman at Nuremberg is a prime example, American hangmen would have difficulty hanging wallpaper, let alone people.
America has long been looking for a method that at least gives the appearance of being humane. First it was hanging, then they came up with electrocution, then the gas chamber, nowadays it's lethal injection. None of them have been successful at being a humane means of killing, but lethal injection provides the fig leaf of seeming humane while being every bit as barbaric as any other method currently in use.
The Pierrepoint family spring to mind:
http://www.crimemagazine.com/08/hangmen,1026-8.htm
Hanging, if done by what's known as the 'English Method', is by far the quickest, cleanest and most humane method of execution that there is. The entire execution can be over in seconds, not minutes. The fastest hanging, indeed, the fastest execution on record, was carried out by British hangman Albert Pierrepoint (assisted by Syd Dernley) when they hanged murderer James Inglis at Strangeways prison in Manchester. The entire process, from Inglis having his arms strapped behind his back to Inglis hanging dead on the rope, was timed and the execution lasted only seven seconds from start to finish.
Unfortunately, American hangmen have a long legacy of being incompetent, inhumane and sometimes drunk on duty. Also, American prisons use the wrong kind of rope, the wrong sort of noose and take minutes to do a job that should only take seconds if the executioners know what they're doing. Unfortunately, and the American hangman at Nuremberg is a prime example, American hangmen would have difficulty hanging wallpaper, let alone people.
America has long been looking for a method that at least gives the appearance of being humane. First it was hanging, then they came up with electrocution, then the gas chamber, nowadays it's lethal injection. None of them have been successful at being a humane means of killing, but lethal injection provides the fig leaf of seeming humane while being every bit as barbaric as any other method currently in use.
Geri
wasn't born to follow
My former penfriend Dean Carter was convicted of several rapes and murders in 1989, and is still going through the appeal process.
It's a joke - the families of the victims must feel that they will never get justice.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
But China is also the country with the largest population.
What are the executions per million comparisons of China v US?
The exact numbers of people executed in China is classified as a state secret;
Even by the confirmed numbers, the rate of executions in China (0.07 per 100,000 people) is higher than the United States (0.02 per 100,000)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China#Rates_of_execution
maomao
普費斯
Shooting or lethal injection.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Aha, yes I thought it was shooting...
And I thought that they just do it there and then when the sentence is handed down, don't leave time for appeals and the like ..
Could be wrong.
maomao
普費斯
It depends, it's not consistent.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Leaving aside your psychological assessment of the USA (which is 233 years old, not 100, and there's been colonies there for 400 years) and views on the right to armed self-defence, I used to go for rehabilitation, but changed my mind, so it's perfectly possible to reason yourself into supporting proportionate retribution. Perhaps it's easier for you to believe you can only get there via brainwashing or pathology, but sorry, it isn't so.
Since we're talking about very dangerous people who aren't getting out here, a belief in retribution isn't necessary to make a case for the death penalty. On utilitarian grounds it's the least cruel option, provided they get the method right.
rikwakefield
Born to be Mild
Do 2 wrongs make a right? I don't think so.
rikwakefield
Born to be Mild
What about tickling a trespasser?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The problem with that is that in many (if not all) US states, black felons are more likely to receive the death penalty than white felons.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
"Cardinal Biggles, the feather, if you please."
As I said, if the system is biased against black felons, let's execute more white felons. It doesn't help that most states execute only a tiny number of headline-grabbing cases.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
"Cardinal Biggles, the feather, if you please."
As I said, if the system is biased against black felons, let's execute more white felons. It doesn't help that most states execute only a tiny number of headline-grabbing cases.
You would, of course, be prepared to pull the switch yourself, kill these people personally and to explain to the families of the increased number of either wholly innocent or otherwise unjustly executed (mentally ill defendants, juveniles convicted when underage at the time of their offence and so on) why it was necessary to kill their loved ones on the altar of fairness, naturally.
The funny thing I've noticed about those who support the death penalty is that, when asked this question, they tend towards either some Daily Heil-esque 'Sure, no problem' attitude (suggesting that they have every bit as much bloodlust as those they seek to kill) or they start umm-ing and ahh-ing about how it isn't their job, so someone else will have to do it.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
ffs the us death sentance is the worst of all worlds often badly badly flawed first trials then lenghty often pointless appeals.
if a state is going to kill someone do it swiftly or not bother
death sentance carried out by the govenor (he
signs the death sentance he carries it out)
large capacity 9mm pistol back of the head empty clip op kratos style
if a state is going to kill someone do it swiftly or not bother
death sentance carried out by the govenor (he
signs the death sentance he carries it out)
large capacity 9mm pistol back of the head empty clip op kratos style
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Geri
wasn't born to follow
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Well, what other options are there?
True, you do have a point.
Death penalty types do seem to have either the simplistic thought processes of the 'Let's hang 'em all' variety or the 'It should be done, definitely, but I don't have the balls to do it myself' mentality.
Either that or they cower and hide behind thinking that:
1. 'I'm only the executioner. I'm merely a public servant and the judge and jury bear all the responsibility for they are the ones who convicted and sentenced the accused.'
2. 'I'm only a juror, it's not my responsibility as the judge passes sentence and the executioner actually kills the prisoner, so if anyone's to blame it's them.'
3. 'I'm only a trial judge. I merely direct the legal proceedings and pass sentence according to the law. It's the jury who find them guilty and the executioner that performs the killing, therefore it's not really my responsibility either.'
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
TBH, I have reservations about people on both sides that are completely sure of their opinion. Anyone who doesn't have doubts hasn't considered all of the difficulties.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Oh I bet sometimes the blade stuck and would not come down.
This ^^^ I am also suspicious of "moral certainty".
spacemonkey
I Love Noodles
Yes there is. Hypoxic death using certain types of gas (helium, nitrogen etc...)
Under controlled conditions it's as close to a perfect way of killing a human as you can ask for.
Would there have been a more conscientous tradesman in revolutionary France than the guillotiine-oiler?
What's so bad about being completely sure that you don't want your government to have the power to take a citizen's life?
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Irrelevant and emotive ad hominem, all of it. You might as well ask people who support life imprisonment if they're personally willing to bang the unfortunate miscreant up in their cellar for 60 years, and explain to the families if the neer'do'well commits suicide.
I've no idea if I'd be capable of pulling the lever in a hanging shed. Likewise, I've no idea if I'd be able to kill an enemy soldier with an SA80. If we restored capital punishment I wouldn't be applying for the post of chief hangman. But I'd be willing to pay someone else to do it.
Most of us, if pushed, support things we're not willing or able to do ourselves. It's all a whopping great red herring.
I tend to agree. Only a few states (Texas and Florida, mainly) apply the death penalty with any kind of consistency, and even there, only a tiny proportion of murderers are killed by the state.
Lawyers who drag appeals out to the crack of doom shoulder much of the blame, but so do laws that allow prosecutors to apply the penalty arbitrarily, and restrict it to Murder in the First Degree.
If you're going to have capital punishment for murder it should be the default position, with mercy granted on a case-by-case basis.
Ditto. I'm especially suspicious of casual support for life imprisonment. Not because I think its advocates are personally flawed, but because anyone who's thought it through wouldn't be so blithe in locking a human being up until they die.
As someone who switched from anti- to pro-capital punishment -- after much thought and after trying very hard to not change my mind -- I'm unphased by the emotive arguments against execution. Used all of them myself. As ever, attacking your opponent instead of their position tends to indicate doubt in your own views.
Similar threads
