OECD says immigration pushes wages down

[rhys gethin]

the catch 22 is that w/c people will NOT NOT NOT trust us while they continue to see/percieve the left supportting the immigrant over the indiginous worker .. teh muslim over the xtian .. the minoirty over the majority ..

Well, I don't think they're likely to trust us if our agenda is set by the Sun or the Mail, surely. Our job is to unite workers, not to pick on any particular lot because of their origins: if we do that we really are up shit creek, aren't we? We don't control immigation. It's a simple as that.

 

[exosculate]

Well, I don't think they're likely to trust us if our agenda is set by the Sun or the Mail, surely. Our job is to unite workers, not to pick on any particular lot because of their origins: if we do that we really are up shit creek, aren't we? We don't control immigation. It's a simple as that.

Whose we? In cloud cuckoo la la land, where you are irrelevant it may be that simple.

 

[durruti02]

Well, I don't think they're likely to trust us if our agenda is set by the Sun or the Mail, surely. Our job is to unite workers, not to pick on any particular lot because of their origins: if we do that we really are up shit creek, aren't we? We don't control immigation. It's a simple as that.

jesus can't you see?? the sun and the mail support the influx!!!! their readers employ these poor people ... they are just shit stirring

you though seem NOT to understand Trade Unionism .. it WAS always the job of TUs to control labour until recently ... through the closed shop etc ... it used to be a fundamental of the unions because without 100% trade unionism with this ability to control or influence recruitment the unions have NO power .. when the bosses have the ability to import labour as and when .. again we have NO power .. this is basic .. if we let the bosss control labour we are fked ..

this whole immigration debate, to me, is to try and re state this fundamental

p.s. you welsh? de /gog ?? check the SWMFs attempts to get 100% union in the 20ts and 30ts .. they rightly saw that without this they were impotent ... i suspect it was the same with the NWQU/TnG in the gog

rhys mate NO one is anti immigrant here .. we are trying to find a way out of the shite and impotence we are in .. i understand you think this appears anti immigrant .. in fact there is more than enough anti immigrant attitudes out there .. what i am saying relates to the FUNCTION of immigration and teh PROCESSES of neo libealism .. as IF we do NOT understand thm we will not be able to deal with them

 

[cockneyrebel]

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=189795

 

[rhys gethin]

Whose we? In cloud cuckoo la la land, where you are irrelevant it may be that simple.

Well. if that is so, we might as well be principled, I suppose. The 'we' being discussed was 'the left'. Telling the truth is unpopular with the exploiters, doubtless, but it will never be irrelevant, fortunately. What point were you making here, by the way?

 

[rhys gethin]

jesus can't you see?? the sun and the mail support the influx!!!! their readers employ these poor people ... they are just shit stirring

you though seem NOT to understand Trade Unionism .. it WAS always the job of TUs to control labour until recently ... through the closed shop etc ... it used to be a fundamental of the unions because without 100% trade unionism with this ability to control or influence recruitment the unions have NO power .. when the bosses have the ability to import labour as and when .. again we have NO power .. this is basic .. if we let the bosss control labour we are fked ..

this whole immigration debate, to me, is to try and re state this fundamental

p.s. you welsh? de /gog ?? check the SWMFs attempts to get 100% union in the 20ts and 30ts .. they rightly saw that without this they were impotent ... i suspect it was the same with the NWQU/TnG in the gog

rhys mate NO one is anti immigrant here .. we are trying to find a way out of the shite and impotence we are in .. i understand you think this appears anti immigrant .. in fact there is more than enough anti immigrant attitudes out there .. what i am saying relates to the FUNCTION of immigration and teh PROCESSES of neo libealism .. as IF we do NOT understand thm we will not be able to deal with them

Okay - I accept that you are not anti-immigrant and agree the relevance of the closed shop, which I am of course for. As with all capitalist issues, the position of the Mail and such is full of contradictions - those who own such things want both the cheap labour AND to divide workers by any means possible. Since we have currently no control over immigration AND very little means of adequately propagandising subtle distinctions about immigration I think, however, that, whatever the theoretical advantages in addressing the Class, this question is full of dangers and is best left alone: our job is to unite the workers who ARE here.

Me? De - Rhondda - but currently working in England.

 

[exosculate]

Well. if that is so, we might as well be principled, I suppose. The 'we' being discussed was 'the left'. Telling the truth is unpopular with the exploiters, doubtless, but it will never be irrelevant, fortunately. What point were you making here, by the way?

Your version of 'the left', you don't have a monopoly on it. The point I'm making is that your not being honest, and most working class people in my view would see the bullshit you are speaking for what it is, bullshit. Which is why you are irrelevant.

 

[rhys gethin]

Your version of 'the left', you don't have a monopoly on it. The point I'm making is that your not being honest, and most working class people in my view would see the bullshit you are speaking for what it is, bullshit. Which is why you are irrelevant.

Tell me, if you will, what is it exactly about what I'm saying that is 'bullshit', and exactly why. The difficulty with so much that people write here is that they are just working off their aggression and not thinking/explaining. I can live in amazing content in 'irrelevance', but I don't think you can do the same thing in ignorance: it is bad for people not to use their brains.

 

[exosculate]

Tell me, if you will, what is it exactly about what I'm saying that is 'bullshit', and exactly why. The difficulty with so much that people write here is that they are just working off their aggression and not thinking/explaining. I can live in amazing content in 'irrelevance', but I don't think you can do the same thing in ignorance: it is bad for people not to use their brains.

You have no subtlety and spout dogmatic ideology that lacks meaning in the real world. Your simplistic crap helps nobody.

A no borders position (at the present time) alienates people. You and your ilk are too damn stupid to comprehend it.

 

[rhys gethin]

You have no subtlety and spout dogmatic ideology that lacks meaning in the real world. Your simplistic crap helps nobody.

A no borders position (at the present time) alienates people. You and your ilk are too damn stupid to comprehend it.

You seen lacking in either the power of words or the power of thought. Who elected you judge of the 'real world'? What 'ideology' am I 'spouting'? I think it is very important for you to try to complete a few postings without abuse or swearing, you know, before you lose the habit of rational discourse altogether. Use the brain you've been given instead of ranting like an SA stormtrooper, or people will begin to think you are an idiot.

 

[exosculate]

You seen lacking in either the power of words or the power of thought. Who elected you judge of the 'real world'? What 'ideology' am I 'spouting'? I think it is very important for you to try to complete a few postings without abuse or swearing, you know, before you lose the habit of rational discourse altogether. Use the brain you've been given instead of ranting like an SA stormtrooper, or people will begin to think you are an idiot.

Swearing? Please!

Stormtrooper? Pat response of the trots, disagree with me and you're a nazi. And you wonder where the gulags come from?

Pathetic! People like you make things worse.

In the real world, people don't want no borders. Have you not noticed? I am describing the real world which is why I speak of it. You are not. Or perhaps you could demonstrate the no borders position that prevails through the majority of British society?

 

[rhys gethin]

Swearing? Please!

Stormtrooper? Pat response of the trots, disagree with me and you're a nazi. And you wonder where the gulags come from?

Pathetic! People like you make things worse.

In the real world, people don't want no borders. Have you not noticed? I am describing the real world which is why I speak of it. You are not. Or perhaps you could demonstrate the no borders position that prevails through the majority of British society?

I think you must be pissed all the time, lucky sod!

 

[durruti02]

Okay - I accept that you are not anti-immigrant and agree the relevance of the closed shop, which I am of course for. As with all capitalist issues, the position of the Mail and such is full of contradictions - those who own such things want both the cheap labour AND to divide workers by any means possible. Since we have currently no control over immigration AND very little means of adequately propagandising subtle distinctions about immigration I think, however, that, whatever the theoretical advantages in addressing the Class, this question is full of dangers and is best left alone: our job is to unite the workers who ARE here.

Me? De - Rhondda - but currently working in England.

sorry for delay and thanks for fair hearing/reply

yes the question is full of danger but surely it is out-there already??? .. you can not pick up a paper or turn on the radio without it .. and i actually think you will not unite those who are already here if you are NOT open and honest about this process .. people are going right NOT left in a period they should be going left .. we need to look and see why ..

the swmf book is fascinating about the priority that was put on getting 100% union .. being from the rhondda you have got to read it!! it is also suprising that scabs were such a problem in the valleys

 

[rhys gethin]

sorry for delay and thanks for fair hearing/reply

yes the question is full of danger but surely it is out-there already??? .. you can not pick up a paper or turn on the radio without it .. and i actually think you will not unite those who are already here if you are NOT open and honest about this process .. people are going right NOT left in a period they should be going left .. we need to look and see why ..

the swmf book is fascinating about the priority that was put on getting 100% union .. being from the rhondda you have got to read it!! it is also suprising that scabs were such a problem in the valleys

Read it already, twice.

 

[durruti02]

Read it already, twice.

me too .. it is one of those books .. what edition have you though .. i swear that i read in one edition about someone called "Dai trotsky" ( or something like thta!!) in a pit near swansea who was in the old RCP and argued for strikes during the period the russians were allies?? yet that is not in the book i have??

 

[durruti02]

bump re new thread