Obese patients denied operations

[GB4]

Yes. At least more so than seeing my money go towards those useless fucking inbred scroungers on the civil list or an MPs second home, not five minutes away from his first.

I agree, but National Insurance doesn't pay for them, taxes do. My point is that there is not enough money being put into the pot for everyone to take as much as they may need out of it, especially when the drug companies sue producers of generic drugs so readily. We are all aware of our "rights" to whatever treatment is required to make us healthy, so we have to accept the responsibilities that come with those rights and do what we can to stay out of hospital / healthcare, as much for our nearest & dearest as anything else. Off down the docs with your top-up contributions then, In Bloom!!!!

 

[lewislewis]

What simplistic bollocks.

Weight loss is as much about exercise as diet control, what about those who become obese because of injuries which don't allow them to exercise as much as they need to? Where do they come in your incredibly simplistic worldview?

My worldview is far from simplistic, but I think people need to criticise obesity even if it means being a twat, because of the dire implications of having a massively overweight society (which is what we're getting now).

 

[shandy]

Billy and Benny denied operations :

 

[potential]

first one to the operating table...
on your marks, get set, go!!!! unlucky fat boy

 

[Fullyplumped]

I agree, but National Insurance doesn't pay for them, taxes do.

NI contributions are a tax on earned income and employment. They are not diverted to the NHS budgets or anywhere else.

 

[WasGeri]

They were talking about this on Breakfast News this morning. There was one health professional who said that we are actually consuming less calories now than in the last 100 years, and the main cause of obesity is lack of exercise. I really find this hard to believe, especially taking into account rationing during the war, but I assume there must be some scientific basis for her statement. I can fully appreciate the lack of exercise comment as I think increased car ownership means that there are a lot of people who don't get any exercise whatsoever as they tend to use the car for journeys they might previously have made on foot. My dad is a postman and although he had a poor diet, he was fit because he cycled his rounds. Not long after they gave him a van instead, he had a heart attack.

She also pointed out that to be 'obese' you only have to be three stone overweight.

Taxing something to the hilt does not stop anyone using it - you only have to look at cigarettes, alcohol and petrol to see that.

 

[redsquirrel]

It's tough love but it will work. If obese people realise that they might lose their health benefits, then it is a first class incentive to lose weight. Otherwise, we're going to have to put loads of health resources into treating something that is somebody's own stupid fault.
When there are billions of people starving, obesity is a crime against humanity.

a perfect illustration I wondered who the other one Butchers was talking about was.

 

[Callie]

My worldview is far from simplistic, but I think people need to criticise obesity even if it means being a twat, because of the dire implications of having a massively overweight society (which is what we're getting now).

Do you do the same to smokers and drinkers?

 

[Callie]

They were talking about this on Breakfast News this morning. There was one health professional who said that we are actually consuming less calories now than in the last 100 years, and the main cause of obesity is lack of exercise. I really find this hard to believe, especially taking into account rationing during the war, but I assume there must be some scientific basis for her statement.

Im would imagine that is correct. We know a lot more about nutrition than we did 100 years ago. As you have stated more people use transport - be it cars, buses or the tube. 100 years ago Im sure people walked A LOT more - and now were being told to do the same.

Lack of excercise is as bad for a human as smoking 20 a day.

 

[jæd]

They were talking about this on Breakfast News this morning. There was one health professional who said that we are actually consuming less calories now than in the last 100 years, and the main cause of obesity is lack of exercise.

Yep... Look at how many times people use the car when they could walk somewhere... Or use the lift to the first floor...

My commute to work is a 20 minute walk. But thats because I use the Underground to travel about 7/8 miles. In theory I could cycle here or even walk if I got up earlier. (Instead I burn calories at the gym)

 

[ViolentPanda]

My worldview is far from simplistic, but I think people need to criticise obesity even if it means being a twat, because of the dire implications of having a massively overweight society (which is what we're getting now).

For someone who claims a "far from simplistic" worldview, wouldn't you say that the your comment of "If there's a problem, eat less" is in fact simplistic, in that it presents the assumption that all obesity is rooted in overconsumption?

You may believe you are criticising obesity, but what you have actually done is attack a single factor of the issue in a manner that isn't conducive to solving the overall problem you claim to be concerned about.

 

[rich!]

ok - missed this one. So - people who injure themselves doing hazardous sports should pay for their own treatment too, right?

Makes sense to me

And car drivers should be taxed more to support the NHS.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

for me male 5'8" if I lost weight to 7.5 stone, I would still be normal according to that calculator, I would be emancipated.

The calculations are flawed.

don't you mean emceated (as in starved of al nutrition) rathre than emancipated (as in given the right to vote in political ellections) or are you just to tubby to get into the ellection booths at the moment

 

[Firky]

the guidelines are here, I'll tell you what, I'm underweight for my height, according to this calculator, I'm bordering on overweight, I'm 10 stone wet thru' and 5'8"

bmi calculator

Haha it says I'm 'normal', fuck that. Am skinny as ya like

18.7

 

[Firky]

Basically NHS treatement in future is going to be reserved for the fit. Smokers, drinkers, drug users and porkers need not apply

Leaving an immaculate population in its wake.

It is more dangerous for anaesthetists to put someone to sleep who is too fat.

There's often people being turned away for that reason. I'm sure there'll be stats somewhere.

 

[kyser_soze]

I kinda think that there should be a 3 strikes and out rule - basically if you have 3 illnesses connected to lifestyle then after the 3rd treatment it's 'Well, you've not changed your lifestyle' Medical treatment isn't just one way - if you've got drinking/smoking/whatever related illnesses and you don't make adjustments to your lifestyle why should the NHS offer free treatment.

And yes, I'd say the same to an extreme sports person who kept getting activity related injuries.

 

[White Lotus]

I posted a thread in general about this, but got shot down within 60 seconds by Donna Ferentes linking to this one. So perhaps I can add the points I made in my OP there:

1. Yes, operations are more risky for overweight people. But this is not a clinical decision, it is a financial one. The fact it will mean fewer operations is because people who would have passed clinical criteria, will be denied the operation.

2. As others have said, exercise is the biggest factor in putting on or losing weight. So someone who has arthritis of the hip or knee and for whom every step is agony, is going to find it extremely hard to lose weight down to the "one size fits all" guidelines.

3. Of course, if you are desperate you can get a second mortgage or whatever it takes to raise the money and go private. What happens then is that any cock-ups come back to the NHS to sort out - costing a lot more than doing the operation right the first time. A second operation on the same hip is more dangerous and does not last as long, either.

 

[lewislewis]

Do you do the same to smokers and drinkers?

No, smoking is in decline.

Binge drinking is an issue of public order, and until we become a nation of alcoholics I won't worry about the situation.

 

[Fullyplumped]

This, by Cristina Odone, is quite interesting.

"Britons cannot make up their mind whether they are submissive victims who must be looked after by a benevolent State; or self-reliant patients who make calculated lifestyle choices (and pay for them — whether they be the yoga class or the nicotine chewing gum) in order to stay healthy."

I think her basic premise is right. Adults all have to take an active, informed responsibility for our own health, we have to recognise that there are consequences arising out of behaviours that imperil our health, and that if we are given advice and offered help by the NHS to manage these risks, and we fail to act on that advice, then we cannot reasonably expect the NHS to give us the same priority as others who do take that advice.

That's the grown up approach - children and adolescents get told what to do but adults get to make choices and need to live with the consequences.

Some good points have been made about people living with impairments that make it harder to exercise, which I think is fair enough. The advice and support should correspond with the individual situation.

But in general, it is fair to expect grown ups to follow advice to lose weight by managing their eating and taking exercise before they get the hip replacement or whatever. They should expect to lose priority for surgery if they don't respond to the other part of the holistic package of treatment - the part that relies on them taking personal responsibility and demonstrating a serious commitment to their own continuing mobility and health.

OK, I am going to bring the car into work today but I'll be good next week, honest!

 

[Fullyplumped]

I should qualify my earlier point by saying that the advice given needs to backed up by proper scientific evidence and given in good failth. My attention has been drawn to this in comments at Harry's Place .

Relationships between body mass indices and surgical replacements of knee and hip joints.: Wendelboe et al, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT, USA.

BACKGROUND: Osteoarthritis is both the most common form of arthritis and the most common reason for joint replacement surgery. Obese persons are believed to be more likely to develop generalized osteoarthritis that leads not only to knee but also to hip joint replacement surgeries. We hypothesized that obesity is also a risk for partial joint replacements and surgical revisions.

..snip boring science stuff...

CONCLUSIONS: While there is an association between obesity and hip and knee joint replacement surgeries, obesity does not appear to confer an independent risk for hip or knee revision procedures.