Obama would never become Prime Minister of Britain because of Racism

[ViolentPanda]

Well of course, but it is equally important not to let your knowledge of HIS history colour you judgement of what he said...

Not "equally", because I'm not, after all, the one seeking political power.

This is a fair comment to make. Regardless of what you think of Philips, he is bang on in saying that. The 'old boy' network is very much still at play.

I WILL admit to having a slight animus against Trevor Philips, insofar as he's made use of "old boy's networks" of his own over the years both in the media and in politics.

Still, he's not quite as much a chancer as Paul Baoteng, who took political opportunism to new heights with his transition from a Narayan-ite socialist firebrand to an establishment twat.

 

[soulfish]

A black person will not rise to the top of the Labour Party because they dont want them to it, it's easy as that. If you look back at all the Black Labour MPs and when they were elected you see that they never made it as far as their white counterparts. Paul Boateng elected 1987 and rose to a minor cabinet minister after being shifted sideways in the home office. After his election David Milliband took four years to make it to the front bench and some were talking of him taking over Tony Blair as PM after just 5 years in Parliament. Ed Balls took under 2 years to make it to the front bench is he some kind of superman or something?
What I see is a lot of negative racism from people in the UK who are transferring what they really believe to Trevor Philips and attempting badly!! to say that Philips is wrong. The so called soft left who feel they are truly non-racists but they can't fool me, I know how they operate.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But Bill Morris did rise to the top of an enormous trade union. Boateng may well have been held back by his race. But lots of other, white, MPs have had similarly mediocre careers.

I don't doubt that there are obstacles to be overcome based on race, just as there are in the US. But an exceptional figure could rise, I would think. I doubt even Paul Boateng's best friends would consider him to be an exceptional figure.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Obama's election doesn't mean that the US isn't still a society deeply divided by race. He is an exceptional figure, and his success is still the exception rather than the rule.

Yes. Obama as a figure head has mass appeal. His own background, approach and policies means he connects to many different demographics.

 

[HackneyE9]

A black person will not rise to the top of the Labour Party because they dont want them to it, it's easy as that. If you look back at all the Black Labour MPs and when they were elected you see that they never made it as far as their white counterparts. Paul Boateng elected 1987 and rose to a minor cabinet minister after being shifted sideways in the home office. After his election David Milliband took four years to make it to the front bench and some were talking of him taking over Tony Blair as PM after just 5 years in Parliament. Ed Balls took under 2 years to make it to the front bench is he some kind of superman or something?
What I see is a lot of negative racism from people in the UK who are transferring what they really believe to Trevor Philips and attempting badly!! to say that Philips is wrong. The so called soft left who feel they are truly non-racists but they can't fool me, I know how they operate.

Miliband and Balls prove nothing either way.

Miliband = Blair's right hand man.

Balls = Brown's right hand man.

That's why those two got promoted so quickly. Over the heads of white colleagues as much as black or Asian.

I'd say it was more the other way around. I know from various sources that after 1997 New Labour were itching to promote Oona King, as she was young, black, female and fit - but unfortunately she wasn't competent and on top of her brief enough. Although a massive publicity seeker.

Lammy is a bit better, but still had a slow rise considering the great things promised for him.

 

[Treacle Toes]

But Bill Morris did rise to the top of an enormous trade union.

Quite different to the head of a ruling party though no?

Boateng may well have been held back by his race. But lots of other, white, MPs have had similarly mediocre careers.

Yeap, because they didn't fit the mould.

I don't doubt that there are obstacles to be overcome based on race, just as there are in the US. But an exceptional figure could rise, I would think. I doubt even Paul Boateng's best friends would consider him to be an exceptional figure.

Race isn't the only obstacle obviously....the idea is that the 'mould' is still there....

 

[ViolentPanda]

A black person will not rise to the top of the Labour Party because they dont want them to it, it's easy as that. If you look back at all the Black Labour MPs and when they were elected you see that they never made it as far as their white counterparts. Paul Boateng elected 1987 and rose to a minor cabinet minister after being shifted sideways in the home office. After his election David Milliband took four years to make it to the front bench and some were talking of him taking over Tony Blair as PM after just 5 years in Parliament. Ed Balls took under 2 years to make it to the front bench is he some kind of superman or something?
What I see is a lot of negative racism from people in the UK who are transferring what they really believe to Trevor Philips and attempting badly!! to say that Philips is wrong. The so called soft left who feel they are truly non-racists but they can't fool me, I know how they operate.

To be fair., Boateng's political past left far too many "hostages to fortune" for "New" Labour to have ever been entirely happy with him, just as most of them felt their ringpieces pucker whenever Bernie Grant waled in a room. They weren't only black, they'd espoused socialism too!!

I. for one, am not saying Trevor Philips is wrong, I'm saying that given his history, he's not the right person to be making the argument, because from him it has the taste of sour grapes, especially after he thought his "New" Labour pals had sewn up the Mayoral elections for him.

 

[HackneyE9]

To be fair., Boateng's political past left far too many "hostages to fortune" for "New" Labour to have ever been entirely happy with him, just as most of them felt their ringpieces pucker whenever Bernie Grant waled in a room. They weren't only black, they'd espoused socialism too!!

I. for one, am not saying Trevor Philips is wrong, I'm saying that given his history, he's not the right person to be making the argument, because from him it has the taste of sour grapes, especially after he thought his "New" Labour pals had sewn up the Mayoral elections for him.

What he said, innit.

Trevor's got a cheek to moan about the "Old Boys Network", considering he's know Mandelson since the late 70s and choose him as his Best Man at his wedding.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Quite different to the head of a ruling party though no?

It shows that a large, mostly white electorate has at least once voted for a black candidate in the UK.

An exceptional, inspirational black MP could go far, I'd have thought.

 

[HackneyE9]

It shows that a large, mostly white electorate has at least once voted for a black candidate in the UK.

An exceptional, inspirational black MP could go far, I'd have thought.

Lammy's tried a lot of that, hasn't he? - inviting Alicia Keys to the House of Commons etc.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It shows that a large, mostly white electorate has at least once voted for a black candidate in the UK.

An exceptional, inspirational black MP could go far, I'd have thought.

I have to admit I nearly coughed a frog when I read the New Statesman yesterday and saw Martin Bright's puff piece on Chuka Ummuna, saying he's being talked about as the next Labour party leader but one.
He's not even a bleeding MP yet!

 

[soulfish]

I dunno if I agree with that Balls and Millibands thing. Being a right hand man is only posistion in the cabinet. Politicans tend to promote people just like them and the odd few who arent just to show people that they arent taking favourites such as Prescott to appease the unions. Within this Abraham Lincoln spirit why can't David Lammy be in the same posistion as Balls or Milliband? Or why couldn't Boateng or Keith Vaz been Home Secretary even it's just for apperance sakes. I wouldnt care if they shit... In reality how many of them are any good anyway.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I dunno if I agree with that Balls and Millibands thing. Being a right hand man is only posistion in the cabinet. Politicans tend to promote people just like them and the odd few who arent just to show people that they arent taking favourites such as Prescott to appease the unions. Within this Abraham Lincoln spirit why can't David Lammy be in the same posistion as Balls or Milliband? Or why couldn't Boateng or Keith Vaz been Home Secretary even it's just for apperance sakes. I wouldnt care if they shit... In reality how many of them are any good anyway.

Well, Vaz fucked himself up the arse, didn't he?

 

[Treacle Toes]

It shows that a large, mostly white electorate has at least once voted for a black candidate in the UK.

An exceptional, inspirational black MP could go far, I'd have thought.

Yes, but that doesn't mean the 'glass ceiling' no longer exists....'far' is a relative term surely?

 

[HackneyE9]

I have to admit I nearly coughed a frog when I read the New Statesman yesterday and saw Martin Bright's puff piece on Chuka Ummuna, saying he's being talked about as the next Labour party leader but one.
He's not even a bleeding MP yet!

Off topic, but Martin Bright appears to be taking the Nick Cohen route.

 

[HackneyE9]

PS - who the fuck is Chuka Ummuna, when he or she is at home?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, but that doesn't mean the 'glass ceiling' no longer exists....'far' is a relative term surely?

I don't know. The nature of 'glass ceilings' is that they are perceived to exist until someone breaks through them. And again, I come back to the exceptionalist aspect. Disraeli became PM in a society whose establishment was deeply antisemitic.

Disraeli was a Conservative, of course. I was one of those who thought that the first black president would be a Republican. What's really exciting about Obama is that he is, by US standards, very progressive.

 

[Melinda]

I was watching Question Time this past week when this subject came up. Bonnie Greer was speaking about there a black British PM in time, the camera pulled back and you could see a ripple of something (collective shudder/ revulsion?) as the majority of the audience bristled at the very idea.

Apart from structural differences in political parties between here and the US, there are issues of social mobility, class and access to opportunity...

But above all, its the 'belonging' argument. Are blacks, Asians and other immigrants ever *really* British?

British enough to run for the nation, but not enough to run it.

Children of immigrants can do their best to assimilate and fit in, but its so far and no further. They may live here and propser through their own efforts, but they arent 'of' here.
Its a while ago now, but when the Conservatives tried to get John Taylor elected in the safe seat of Cheltenham in '92, the Lib Dem who ran against him and won campaigned on being a 'local man.' Stymied out of a parliamentary career for being too uppity and not resilient enough.

How many non white candidates stand in non urban constituencies? Black and Asian cabinet ministers are likely in the next 10 years, but PM?

If Michael Portillo can say part of the reason he could never be the leader of the Conservatives is because his surname is Portillo, what hope have you if your surname is Ayagipe, Kasicki or Narasimha.

Oh an David Lammy is a tosspot. An empty suit.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If Michael Portillo can say part of the reason he could never be the leader of the Conservatives is because his surname is Portillo, what hope have you if your surname is Ayagipe, Kasicki or Narasimha.

Portillo is wrong, and Disraeil is proof that he is wrong. No hiding your Jewish heritage with a name like that, yet he did lead the Conservatives.

But the likes of Disraeli and Obama are exceptions to a rule of disadvantage and discrimination. That's the real point, I'd have thought – that exceptions can buck the rule.

 

[HackneyE9]

Lammy is a tosspot, who doens't have an opinion of his own until he's rung up Millbank, agreed.

I would have thought, considering the different imperial histories of UK and US, an Asian PM is more likely before a black PM.

 

[Melinda]

Portillo is wrong, and Disraeil is proof that he is wrong. No hiding your Jewish heritage with a name like that, yet he did lead the Conservatives.

But the likes of Disraeli and Obama are exceptions to a rule of disadvantage and discrimination. That's the real point, I'd have thought – that exceptions can buck the rule.

I did consider Disraeli, but as you said- over a century later- its still an exception.

Look at the demonisation of Michael Howard. "Something of the night about him?" The vampire imagery? My grandmother hated his politics but she worried greatly about the way he was depicted and deminished as a person.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Off topic, but Martin Bright appears to be taking the Nick Cohen route.

Not quite as polemic, but I know what you mean.

 

[HackneyE9]

I did consider Disraeli, but as you said- over a century later- its still an exception.

Look at the demonisation of Michael Howard. "Something of the night about him?" The vampire imagery? My grandmother hated his politics but she worried greatly about the way he was depicted and deminished as a person.

TBF the "something of the night" about him wasn't the media or the public, that was his own party, or rather mad Catholic Ann Widdecombe.

 

[HackneyE9]

Not quite as polemic, but I know what you mean.

The Ken documentary would be Exhibit A.

 

[soulfish]

Keith Vaz fucked himself up the arse meaning?????????????

 

[Sasaferrato]

.

 

[butchersapron]

Trev is still bitter that he didn't get to be mayor of London.

I just wrote

Reading between the lines it's exactly what i feared would happen - it's simply Trever Phillips putting down an early marker for being next Labour candidate for London Mayor.

then decided i better read the thread first.

 

[HackneyE9]

Keith Vaz fucked himself up the arse meaning?????????????

His deep corruption, ahem, I mean "cronyism."

 

[Sasaferrato]

Well that's not exaxtly what he said is it. If anything your "headline" is as misleading and sensationalist as some of the right wing knee jerk papers that some calim to hate so much.

Let's look at what he ACTUALLY said, rather than paraphrasing in the intrests of sensatinalism:

[quoet=Trevor Philps]"“If Barack Obama had lived here I would be very surprised if even somebody as brilliant as him would have been able to break through the institutional stranglehold that there is on power within the Labour Party,”

"That's exactly the point that has been made about systemic bias - it is exactly the point that this, that what is thought, what's called - it's not a phrase I use, by the way - institutional racism.

"But it's a point about the fact that systems can sometimes work in such a way that, in spite of everybody's goodwill, in spite of the fact that everybody wants it to change, it doesn't change."

So it's no simply a cose of "OH NOES! THE RASCIMS!!!111!!" is it?

It's more of a case of not fitting the mould of a pompous "old boys" club that like to see thir own get to the top and don't like anything different. They promote their own because their own is what they are used to.

Sadly most black people do not fit into the socio-economic group "old pompous farts" so would have very chance of getting anywhere. simply cos they're not "old pompus farts".


It's another... old pompus farts like to hire young pompous farts news story.



Was that a bear I just hears shitting in the woods???




*goes to investigate*[/QUOTE]


Indeed.

For sheer gravitas though, elderly West Indian gentlemen take a lot of beating.

 

[Sasaferrato]

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