Obama retreats on public healthcare
- Thread starter London_Calling
- Start date
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Next you'll be telling me a Bill of Rights was added within 12 years, or that more States joined.
Sure there are. The parties aren´t necessarily split down ideological lines in the States. A sizeable percentage of house Democrats are to the right of many Republicans.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
it´s what 60 to 40 in there? So 1 in 6 dems don´t actually agree with the policy they were elected on
why not bully them into like they do here?
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Hahahahahah Hah!
The denizens of the Corporate Republic get the healthcare they deserve. Bunch of invady flag-wavy hysterical pricks.
The denizens of the Corporate Republic get the healthcare they deserve. Bunch of invady flag-wavy hysterical pricks.
mattie
missing in inaction
Hahahahahah Hah!
The denizens of the Corporate Republic get the healthcare they deserve. Bunch of invady flag-wavy hysterical pricks.
Isn't it only the disenfranchised who suffer?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Time for a second American Revolution. The tree of liberty is in desperate need of the blood of tryants.
Republicans - bang!
Blue Dog Democrats - bang!
Health Insurance Industry - bang!
Tell you what, we'll try and get Dan Hannan extradicted for trial as well - bang, bang fucking bang right in his ccunt tory face.
Republicans - bang!
Blue Dog Democrats - bang!
Health Insurance Industry - bang!
Tell you what, we'll try and get Dan Hannan extradicted for trial as well - bang, bang fucking bang right in his ccunt tory face.
it´s what 60 to 40 in there? So 1 in 6 dems don´t actually agree with the policy they were elected on
it could well be true that tony blair and gordon brown really did want to change the country not just be the new acceptable face of the accelerated decimation of society for the all powerful superrich but they just ended up looking like cunts because they didn't realise just what they were up against until they were put in power
everyone votes for change and complains about how nothing changes but how many people are actually out changing anything?
sitting about expecting the answer to come from up high
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
There they are happy as Larry, a successful lawyer or doctor or busness executive or whatever, and then WHOLLOP, fender-bender causes whiplash, now let the milking begin.
They're spat out at the endof their journey in debt, bad health and facing homelessness. It's the American way fucker, deal with it. Good thing you ain't Soviet Sweden at least.
There they are happy as Larry, a successful lawyer or doctor or busness executive or whatever, and then WHOLLOP, fender-bender causes whiplash, now let the milking begin.
They're spat out at the endof their journey in debt, bad health and facing homelessness. It's the American way fucker, deal with it. Good thing you ain't Soviet Sweden at least.
are you really so naive?
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
The non-voters are the gullible ones. It's that kind of apathy that allows the right to get away with so much.
Because US presidents tend to be most powerful during the period early in their terms. The party that controls the white house usually loses seats in congress in the mid term elections, so after the 2010 election the Dems will be weaker. So, it's better to go with a plan that excludes the public option now. Otherwise there will be no health insurance reform bill at all.
Better some progress than none.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I swear, I come here sometimes and wonder if I've mistakenly wandered onto the playground at the youth detention center. 
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
They already have medicare for the old, why isn't that funding terrorism and turning everyone into commies?
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
because voting for hopenchange has gone so well.
Because it's better than sitting on the sidelines & being cynical. That accomplishes nothing & helps the extreme right.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
ok. so, everyone voted. Got a democrat president, congress and senate, all with a mandate for change. And they stiiiiiiiill can´t do something simple like offer a government insurance company.
What situation exactly are you about to create through voting that gives a better chance of change than that?
Offering gov health insurance is simple? Not in the US. If so it would have been done long ago. The healthcare industry is the biggest & probably most powerful in the country, employing 16 mil people, about 1 in 8 American workers.
The problem is the senate. Even with 60 Dems, that's not enough to pass gov ins because some of them are "moderates" from rural/conservative states who likely would be voted out if they supported a public option. We need 60 PROGRESSIVE votes in the senate & we just ain't got um. At least Obama & most Dems are trying. If McCain/Palin were in the WH & the Repubs had a majority in congress, there wouldn't even be a discussion about insurance reform.
Sometimes positive change can only be brought about incrementally & we can only do today what we can do today.
So what's your alternative to voting? Violent revolution? I don't think that would work.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
and yet the majority of Americans have been consistently shown to be in favour of health care reform, in fact there´s a plurality for a public option that actually greater than the margin of Obama´s victory.
If a system is so owned by corporate interests that a newly elected president can´t do something that the public is for, when his party controls both chambers of congress, then meaningful change through conventional politics is dead.
you´re basically saying, ¨fine, let´s just abandon the country to the business elite, accept that they run things and get on with our lives¨
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
It's the curse of the New Posts culture - every forum becomes the General Forum.I swear, I come here sometimes and wonder if I've mistakenly wandered onto the playground at the youth detention center.
Personally i think voting for any of the major choices - in US or UK - borders on the criminal. It might be apathy for some - and who could blame them, but for others it's a conscious and thought-out decision to not vote. For, by voting for any of the four major parties in the US or UK one is voting for liars, criminals, bullshitters, and murderers. This unpalatable fact cannot be got away from, and i hate the idea of voting for such amoral greedy and power-mad people who continue to run these two countries into the ground a la empire collapsing mode.
In addition, banging on about taking up one's vote is continuing the charade that we have a democracy. And in any case, by now no-one really knows what this democracy is. It's such a cliched word. Perhaps that is it, those who vote think they live in a democracy, those who refuse to vote recognise the bullshit that this 'democracy' is.
And it could very well be true they were/are pink elephants in disguise. They may be leaned upon by those who control the money in the country, but they cannot have their power without the people's votes. Ultimately the power rests with the people.
But the people don't know how to effect that power. They continue to think that the idea is to change things, to change this or that party, to change others, to change anything, to change everything, but the last thing they think about is changing themselves.
That is the only thing we can change, and it is the only method whereby any meaningful change can occur in a society, from the bottom up. For a start, refuse to vote for criminals. If that means there's no-one to vote for, spoil the vote and write on the paper why.
It's not about changing society, it's about changing oneself. Then society will change in response. Until this is understood and acted upon we shall continue to have these criminals running our countries.
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
Re. corporate influence over the healthcare system - I would have liked to have been able to listen to this show again where a group of British Psychiatrists have been questioning the DSM produced by the APA:-
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Oh I bet you're just overflowing with knowledge and proud...not that I can't guess what you know about the Bill of Rights.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
You seem very assured in assuming others are dumb. I imagine it gets you far.Oh I bet you're just overflowing with knowledge and proud...not that I can't guess what you know about the Bill of Rights.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the curse of being an american with half a brain. One eyed man in the kingdom of the blind syndrome.
/troll
/troll
I'm not so easily discouraged. Meaningful change through conventional politics is what allowed the rest of the advanced countries to get rid of their health care/insurance systems like the US now has & get pretty good health coverage to all their citizens. Not to use what little power each of us has to advance such a cause would be unthinkable to me. And conventional politics was what got women the vote, eliminated slavery, produced what pro-environmental, worker safety & social services laws we do have.
I think refusing to vote is abanoning the country to the business elite. They have recieved many election setbacks over the years & can be resisted in the political process, even though they have huge power within the system.
It's a bit hypothetical, but i need to do that to make this point:
What if everybody went to the polls and at least 80%, but let's say 100% of people wrote on their ballot paper, 'can't vote for criminals', and therefore spoiled their paper.
What will be the reaction of the media and the elites? Will it change the face of politics, will it bring in a serious rethink amongst all sections of society?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
The corruption of politics by buisness interests is something we've come to expect now, not just in America but all over the world. What's perhaps more insidious in the corruption of peoples minds. I mean look at this:
What the fuck is wrong with these people?
What the fuck is wrong with these people?
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