Now that the dust's settled, a re-evaluation of Disney's Star Wars films

[Reno]

Sure, adults loved it too. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t always envisaged as a juvenile film. In turn, that means it was arguably angsty older teenagers that were the least aimed-at market segment. Maybe if you’d been either five years older or five years younger when it came out, you’d have had a very different experience of it.

Peter Jackson, one of a number of filmmakers around my age inspired by Star Wars, would disagree with you:

"I first saw Star Wars at the Cinerama Theatre in Courtney Place, Wellington. It was summer 1977, and I was 16 years old — possibly the perfect age. The theatre was packed and bubbling with anticipation. I have a vivid memory that at the moment the Death Star blew up, the entire audience leapt to their feet cheering, including me. That type of emotive behaviour never happens with NZ audiences — it was my first (and last) experience of mass hysteria in a cinema.

Being a fanatical film fan, I would buy every monthly movie magazine I could lay my hands on back then. This was a time when Logan’s Run was the current state-of-the-art sci-fi hit, and I can’t actually remember reading anything about Star Wars while it was in production. But that all changed in May 1977 — suddenly every magazine had Star Wars covers and saturation coverage, and it went on for many months.

My only problem was that a “summer release” in New Zealand meant December. In that bygone era, most movies had a six- or seven-month delay between the U.S. release, and when we finally got to see them in NZ.

Those months from May ‘til December 1977, were probably the longest of my life. When I did finally see Star Wars, I’d been blitzed with spoilers for seven months — even without the Internet (and the word “spoiler”). I’d studied hundreds, if not thousands of Star Wars photos, read every article and interview, and listened to the soundtrack album over and over. I can claim to having seen Star Wars when it was first released in 1977 — and while there weren’t a lot of surprises, that sheer visceral excitement remains etched into my consciousness."

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deadline.com

 

[kabbes]

Well, i guess that not every 16 year old is an angsty Hitchcock fan.

 

[Reno]

I gave my personally experience of why Star Wars didn't appeal to me and turning this into some generalisation that all mid-teens would have hated Star Wars was never going to fly. Many kids my age loved it. My love for Hitchcock had little to do with "angst" it had to do with my dad giving me this book for christmas a few years before and I became interested in what goes into making movies.

 

[mojo pixy]

Some people do some stuff but that isn’t really the same as the film having the circle of, for example, the hero’s journey or any other narrative structure.

Just this, because arguing about a film nobody really loves isn't how I want to spend my morning. But it could be a villain's journey, instead of a hero's. In part 1, Kylo Ren kills his dad. In 2, he kills his mentor. In 3 he is redeemed by his mum (kind of) and dies. That's a classic, if clichéd, character arc.

 

[kabbes]

Just this, because arguing about a film nobody really loves isn't how I want to spend my morning. But it could be a villain's journey, instead of a hero's. In part 1, Kylo Ren kills his dad. In 2, he kills his mentor. In 3 he is redeemed by his mum (kind of) and dies. That's a classic, if clichéd, character arc.

That could work except that the relationship with the mentor is never built. When do we see Snoke? What do we know about him? Or his interaction with Kylo?

 

[mojo pixy]

That could work except that the relationship with the mentor is never built. When do we see Snoke? What do we know about him? Or his interaction with Kylo?

Yeah I do agree with this, it's always bothered me that Snoke and the First Order just come as if from nowhere (unless you read outside the films**). More could have been made of the rise of the First Order and how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren, no argument from me there. But lacking all that, he still has his arc in the trilogy, and it has an internal logic, and it's plot- and character-driven.

** at a guess it's been left for future prequels, which is shit but 100% consistent with the rapacious capitalistic nature of big-budget Hollywood rubbish.

 

[kabbes]

Yeah I do agree with this, it's always bothered me that Snoke and the First Order just come as if from nowhere (unless you read outside the films**). More could have been made of the rise of the First Order and how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren, no argument from me there. But lacking all that, he still has his arc in the trilogy, and it has an internal logic, and it's plot- and character-driven.

** at a guess it's been left for future prequels, which is shit but 100% consistent with the rapacious capitalistic nature of big-budget Hollywood rubbish.

The second film was exactly the place to build the rise and fall of the apprentice-mentor relationship if that’s what the trilogy was going to be. Empire was where Luke spent his time with Yoda and then went against his advice to disastrous consequences. TLJ has none of that. It just has Kylo suddenly killing some guy we barely know from Adam.

 

[mojo pixy]

The second film was exactly the place to build the rise and fall of the apprentice-mentor relationship if that’s what the trilogy was going to be. Empire was where Luke spent his time with Yoda and then went against his advice to disastrous consequences. TLJ has none of that. It just has Kylo suddenly killing some guy we barely know from Adam.

Again, I agree. But this is criticism of what the film isn't, rather than an appraisal of what it is.

 

[kabbes]

Again, I agree. But this is criticism of what the film isn't, rather than an appraisal of what it is.

Well, it was in response to your suggestion of what the film is. Namely, my response to your suggestion that TLJ is the middle part of a "villain's journey" is that, if that was the intention, it fails.

 

[mojo pixy]

Well, it was in response to your suggestion of what the film is. Namely, my response to your suggestion that TLJ is the middle part of a "villain's journey" is that, if that was the intention, it fails.

It's far from perfect, but fails is pure hyperbole.

While I'm here again though, I'd like to know why 'Solo' is so hated. I saw that recently too, and it provoked no strong feelings at all. Clumsy scripting as usual, but it has its moments, and it really seemed consistent with every other SW film since Empire Strikes Back. Still, I'm definitely not an avid SW fan so maybe it's just my casual attitude that makes me not mind it. It's not substantially worse than any of the main 9 films, anyway.

 

[kabbes]

While I'm here again though, I'd like to know why 'Solo' is so hated. I saw that recently too, and it provoked no strong feelings at all. Clumsy scripting as usual, but it has its moments, and it really seemed consistent with every other SW film since Empire Strikes Back. Still, I'm definitely not an avid SW fan so maybe it's just my casual attitude that makes me not mind it. It's not substantially worse than any of the main 9 films, anyway.

I agree with that. I thought it was fine. Utterly forgettable -- I can't remember a single thing about it now -- but I remembering finding it enjoyable fun at the time.

 

[stereotypical]

The second film was exactly the place to build the rise and fall of the apprentice-mentor relationship if that’s what the trilogy was going to be. Empire was where Luke spent his time with Yoda and then went against his advice to disastrous consequences. TLJ has none of that. It just has Kylo suddenly killing some guy we barely know from Adam.

Exactly. It was absolute trash and ballsed up the entire trilogy (largely).

 

[Karl Masks]

I just can't believe the villain of the piece was some petulant child with a name like a Nintendo character. Until they threw money at Ian McDiarmid to get him to save the show.

What a fucking mess. The best stuff since the Droids cartoon has been the Clone Wars cartoons. Mando season 2 was good, but season 1 was rubbish and Book of Bobba was boring as fuck. Solo was a massive pile of shit. Bad Batch is just depressing. Obi Wan was good if also depressing.

I remember watching RotJ and seeing the ending thinking "what a great story that was". Complete and fully realised fun pulp space fantasy. Until Disney scented money money money.

 

[moochedit]

It's far from perfect, but fails is pure hyperbole.

While I'm here again though, I'd like to know why 'Solo' is so hated. I saw that recently too, and it provoked no strong feelings at all. Clumsy scripting as usual, but it has its moments, and it really seemed consistent with every other SW film since Empire Strikes Back. Still, I'm definitely not an avid SW fan so maybe it's just my casual attitude that makes me not mind it. It's not substantially worse than any of the main 9 films, anyway.

I expected to hate Solo due to the actor change but was pleasently surprised. Not the best or worst sw film but I enjoyed it. Could have done with a sequel where han meets jaba for the first time but that won't happen as it flopped at the box office due to being released a few months after the last jedi meaning a lot of fans boycotted it.

 

[mojo pixy]

Solo was a massive pile of shit.

But why, specifically?

 

[T & P]

I expected to hate Solo due to the actor change but was pleasently surprised. Not the best or worst sw film but I enjoyed it. Could have done with a sequel where han meets jaba for the first time but that won't happen as it flopped at the box office due to being released a few months after the last jedi meaning a lot of fans boycotted it.

Solo was kind of destined to be seen as a failure after the spectacularly bad press and rumours during production. Whereas the omens weren’t that good for Rogue One either, when it transpired they had to reshoot up to 40% of the film and parachute in a co-director, those are not unheard of in the industry.

But when the widely spread rumours surfaced (which many said were actually true) about Alden Ehrenreich, the main lead and playing arguably the most iconic and best loved character in the franchise) being so abjectly dismal they had to bring in an acting coach to see him through, I guess many people wrote off the film even before having seen it. As it turned out I thought his performance was perfectly fine, or not bad in any way at least.