November 11th
- Thread starter Dilzybhoy
- Start date
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Dilzybhoy said:
All of them - regardless of the conflict.
My son came home and told me about the rememberance service they put on for the local veterans.
He was sad because his favourite veteran wasn't there. He asked the veteran's granddaughter where he was and was told that he died last summer.
"Soon", he told me, "they will all be dead".
I assured him that we would always have veterans around.
But I find it hard to think of our peacekeepers in Afganistan being veterans.
*this has been a canadian moment*
It there are any veterans on this board - "Thank you!!!".
Charlie Drake
New Member
All of 'em - the young and the short and the tall, even those lads in Iraq
And the civilians - everyone who has died in conflict
And the civilians - everyone who has died in conflict
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Everyone bereaved by war and conflict. The civilian victims, the combatants - most of whom, historically, have been conscripts or working class men looking for a job and a steady pay cheque.
In particular, I remember an ex who survived the Gulf I. He was lucky, he returned, but some of his comrades in arms were hit by the American friendly fire incident. We'd split up before he went out there but had remained friends.
I think of the heart-wrenching letters (the blueys, the airmail letter and envelope in one things) he wrote to me, after he arrived, telling me they were just about to go in, and he was shit scared, and I was the only person he could tell. The guys were all bravado and bluster, not wanting to admit their frailties to one another. And he said he couldn't tell his mum how he was really feeling, because he knew what that would do to her, she was already worried sick about him and his letters to her reassured her he was coping okay, everything was fine. But to me he said the things he couldn't say to her. And I'm sure there was stuff left unsaid that he felt he couldn't even say to me.
In particular, I remember an ex who survived the Gulf I. He was lucky, he returned, but some of his comrades in arms were hit by the American friendly fire incident. We'd split up before he went out there but had remained friends.
I think of the heart-wrenching letters (the blueys, the airmail letter and envelope in one things) he wrote to me, after he arrived, telling me they were just about to go in, and he was shit scared, and I was the only person he could tell. The guys were all bravado and bluster, not wanting to admit their frailties to one another. And he said he couldn't tell his mum how he was really feeling, because he knew what that would do to her, she was already worried sick about him and his letters to her reassured her he was coping okay, everything was fine. But to me he said the things he couldn't say to her. And I'm sure there was stuff left unsaid that he felt he couldn't even say to me.
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
In ww1 yes, cos if you had a bit of class you weren't going over the top surely...?
I'm not sure about the middle classes though - shop owners, teachers etc. Reckon they probably copped it too.
What do i remember? Watching a rememberance service in France. A WW1 veteran read out that poem tht finishes with 'we shall remember them' and i just thought 'and they shall be avenged'.
I'm not sure about the middle classes though - shop owners, teachers etc. Reckon they probably copped it too.
What do i remember? Watching a rememberance service in France. A WW1 veteran read out that poem tht finishes with 'we shall remember them' and i just thought 'and they shall be avenged'.
Red Faction
Allez Les Rouges
i think of everyone who has suffered because of war
on 11/11 i always think of that last episode of blackadder when they are all sent over the top
and how sad it really is
those trenches were horriffic
i also think of members of my family
had an uncle who served in the merchant navy in WW2- and who had an outlook on life much like gerry fitt
had a cousin shot in spain fighting franco
i think of my grandmother and all the people she knew and lost to war
Sean MacDermott, Sean South
i think of all those people who went to their local pub in guildford
i think of the 7th of july too
on 11/11 i always think of that last episode of blackadder when they are all sent over the top
and how sad it really is
those trenches were horriffic
i also think of members of my family
had an uncle who served in the merchant navy in WW2- and who had an outlook on life much like gerry fitt
had a cousin shot in spain fighting franco
i think of my grandmother and all the people she knew and lost to war
Sean MacDermott, Sean South
i think of all those people who went to their local pub in guildford
i think of the 7th of july too
I was thinking about it because I find the poppy day thing to be, what's the word, selective?
I find the Red Poppy a little too pro british for my liking.
All the individual circumstances above have their own remembrance days. Anniversaries etc.
I.E. 18th Oct, I remember my dad.
The daily Ireland had on it's comment page an interesting viewpoint which sort of says what I was thinking better than I could.
Link
I find the Red Poppy a little too pro british for my liking.
All the individual circumstances above have their own remembrance days. Anniversaries etc.
I.E. 18th Oct, I remember my dad.
The daily Ireland had on it's comment page an interesting viewpoint which sort of says what I was thinking better than I could.
Link
My grandad, Roland Stuart Tizard, who died during WW2 at the age of 19 (I think he got blown up by a tank in Tunisia but I am not 100% sure). He never knew my nan was pregnant (with my mum) and she ended up having a breakdown and was admitted to a pyschiatric hospital when she heard that he had been killed.
Red Faction
Allez Les Rouges
Dilzybhoy said:
maybe
do you know what other countries do on the 11th tho?
do you know how other countries commemorate their dead?
i dont, but imo
april 24th in ireland does not comemmorate the irish dead imo (apart from the men who died in 1916 there obviously)
it celebrates the birth of the nation just like 4th july does in america
when else are the men who died fighting (for both sides!!) in spain remembered?
when are the irish men who fought in gallipoli and the somme remembered?
when are the irish men who were sent on UN service to cyprus, the lebannon and elsewhere throughout the world on peacekeeping missions where they died remembered?
i may be mistaken but 11/11 remembers them all
its what i've been taught- and what i'll continue to choose to believe
if i am inaccurate tho- set me straight mate
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Dilzybhoy said:
It's only my opinion Dilz, but the red poppy, for me, signifies what's in my heart, not the jingoistic crap the pols like to mythologise.
I try to say a prayer for everyone who has been harmed by conflict, and then another for my own dead and damaged.
If you watch the Cenotaph service tomorrow, ignore those miserable fucking politicians with their lip service and their cowardice, ignore their pious jingoism, and remember, the men that matter are the ones who are marching, not the worthless spunk-drips of the government who are sending the comrades-in-arms of those marchers off to die around the world.
Bigdavalad
New Member
The 20 year old lad I watched dying in Iraq last year.
My granddad, because I used to go to Chester for the Remembrance Day parade with my Nan and then go to his grave. One of the first onto the beaches on 6th June 1944, with the South Lancashire Fusiliers. I wish I could have known him before he died (I was 3 or 4 when he went), and I hope he's proud that one of his Grandkids followed him into the Forces.
Every poor bastard who ever went through the hell of war and gave their lives for their country, wherever it was and whatever the war was for.
My granddad, because I used to go to Chester for the Remembrance Day parade with my Nan and then go to his grave. One of the first onto the beaches on 6th June 1944, with the South Lancashire Fusiliers. I wish I could have known him before he died (I was 3 or 4 when he went), and I hope he's proud that one of his Grandkids followed him into the Forces.
Every poor bastard who ever went through the hell of war and gave their lives for their country, wherever it was and whatever the war was for.
Bajie
Zhu Bajie
My great grandfather who fought at Gallipoli and on the Western Front and got a lung full of gas and physical and mental anguish for years afterwoods till he went to an early grave pennyless and in agony as a result of 'serving his country'. My grandfather who served with the polish airforce in WWII and every other person who has died and suffered in pointless wars.
Yeah guys. It's just the Rule Britannia bollox that pisses me off.
Wise words though from VP. Cheers mate.
To Red Faction, I think that's what the article I linked to was kind of getting at.
I'd like to see a remembrance day that, rather than emphasise on the brits, encompass ALL who have gave their lives in conflict. Palestinians, Afghans, Israelis, Cubans and of course even those that dared to fight against the British Empire. ( and of course those I've left out due to lack of space)
To Eita, here's a wee plot in Milltown Cemetery to those who died in wwII from Ulster, Canada and quite prominently, Poland.
That there is immaculately kept in comparison to the rest of the cemetery.
There's also a memorial to those who died in the war to end them all.
May they all rest in peace.
Wise words though from VP. Cheers mate.
To Red Faction, I think that's what the article I linked to was kind of getting at.
I'd like to see a remembrance day that, rather than emphasise on the brits, encompass ALL who have gave their lives in conflict. Palestinians, Afghans, Israelis, Cubans and of course even those that dared to fight against the British Empire. ( and of course those I've left out due to lack of space)
To Eita, here's a wee plot in Milltown Cemetery to those who died in wwII from Ulster, Canada and quite prominently, Poland.
That there is immaculately kept in comparison to the rest of the cemetery.
There's also a memorial to those who died in the war to end them all.
May they all rest in peace.
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
what were you doing there?Bigdavalad said:
What about them that died for no reason, crying in the mud away from home, terrified and alone? Those that never even made a choice to fight?Bigdavalad said:
Bigdavalad
New Member
Taxamo Welf said:
I'm in the Army
Taxamo Welf said:
Aren't they covered by 'every poor bastard who went through the hell of war and gave their lives'?
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Our local high school had an old piano, donated by the Legion eons ago, in disrepair. Upon closer examination they found a plaque with the names of all the high school's students who died in the world wars.
They restored it and added the name of Marc Leger, one of the peacekeepers killed in the "friendly fire" incident in Afganistan.
They unveiled it at the remembrance day ceremonies.
One of the teachers is in a band, so he wrote a song about the piano and it's history. The song is a piano piece and contains the names of those students who had died, in a roll call manner.
We are a very close community and it was really nice to hear the names listed out at such an event.
They plan on having this song performed at future ceremonies. This way the names of our young people will always be remembered.
"Lest we forget" and "never again" are the slogans for our vetrans.
They restored it and added the name of Marc Leger, one of the peacekeepers killed in the "friendly fire" incident in Afganistan.
They unveiled it at the remembrance day ceremonies.
One of the teachers is in a band, so he wrote a song about the piano and it's history. The song is a piano piece and contains the names of those students who had died, in a roll call manner.
We are a very close community and it was really nice to hear the names listed out at such an event.
They plan on having this song performed at future ceremonies. This way the names of our young people will always be remembered.
"Lest we forget" and "never again" are the slogans for our vetrans.
Maggot said:
Thereby hangs a tale - when my brother was a kid he took grandad's medals into school to show.
When my mum next saw the teacher she was all very excited -
"So your father was a decorated Brigadier in WW1!"
My mum had to point out that the "Bgr" on the medals stood for Bugler!
My grandad - Yorkshireman, engineering worker, socialist and Tory-hater - would have been turning in his grave if he thought people thought he was some Brigadier from the Home Counties!
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
no cos you said 'gave their lives for their countries' and i would like to say the vast majority of casualties of war are not fighting for their countries, and indeed, are not fighting at all. They are civilians. I also think that a lot of soldiers are not fighting 'for their countries' either, esp. With regard to WW1. I think if you did a quick poll in the afterlife of all those who died about whether they are glad they died for their country the results would be conclusive.Bigdavalad said:
What did you join the army for? Your country?
Batboy
Trumpeting is good for you...
Taxamo Welf said:
I think many men in past wars were seduced by the 'glory' of war, 'duty' to their country and a warped sense of 'chivalry' to retain face in front of their families and women.
This particularly true of WW1 where the women of 'The Order of the White Feather' gave out white feathers to men who had not enlisted, marking them as 'cowards'.
Of course the true horror/slaughter of WW1 has awoken our consciences to the reality of war. And that for me is why Rememberance Sunday is so important. Do not forget.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
The ones who got talked about in my family:
My grandmother's brother, who fought in WW1 and was gassed somewhere like Ypres. He lived to come home, but died a few years later from throat cancer.
My uncle, whom I never met. He was in the navy, and served on a Corvette with the convoys on the north atlantic. He survived the war, then a few days before he was to be discharged, he was killed in a car accident in Halifax.
My grandfather, who fought in the first war, then was a guard at a prison camp in the second. He was wounded in the first, and used to have to go to this vets hospital in Calgary for treatment. He was a hard old bastard.
Another uncle. He was british, in the RAF. My aunt went over there during the war, and came back a war bride, with him in tow. He was a great storyteller, and a great guy; also, an alcoholic. He had a lot of stories about flying. He told how if you were up long enough, you had to piss yourself if you had to go. The alternative, he'd explain, is that you'd die of 'piss poisoning'. He survived the war, but not the drinking.
Ones not mentioned in my family:
A guy I used to work with as a labourer. He had fought with the Van Doos in Korea. He had a good outlook on life. When I knew him, he had two kids from a wife who'd left him. He was raising them alone, on a labourer's wage.
The Curb Walker. This was a guy around my hometown when I was a kid. He'd walk through the residential streets along the curb, with one foot on the curb, and one off, so he was going up and down with each couple of steps. He'd also talk or sing to himself. If you asked, the adults would explain that he was 'shellshocked'.
We called him the Curb Walker, but no one ever made fun of him etc.
My grandmother's brother, who fought in WW1 and was gassed somewhere like Ypres. He lived to come home, but died a few years later from throat cancer.
My uncle, whom I never met. He was in the navy, and served on a Corvette with the convoys on the north atlantic. He survived the war, then a few days before he was to be discharged, he was killed in a car accident in Halifax.
My grandfather, who fought in the first war, then was a guard at a prison camp in the second. He was wounded in the first, and used to have to go to this vets hospital in Calgary for treatment. He was a hard old bastard.
Another uncle. He was british, in the RAF. My aunt went over there during the war, and came back a war bride, with him in tow. He was a great storyteller, and a great guy; also, an alcoholic. He had a lot of stories about flying. He told how if you were up long enough, you had to piss yourself if you had to go. The alternative, he'd explain, is that you'd die of 'piss poisoning'. He survived the war, but not the drinking.
Ones not mentioned in my family:
A guy I used to work with as a labourer. He had fought with the Van Doos in Korea. He had a good outlook on life. When I knew him, he had two kids from a wife who'd left him. He was raising them alone, on a labourer's wage.
The Curb Walker. This was a guy around my hometown when I was a kid. He'd walk through the residential streets along the curb, with one foot on the curb, and one off, so he was going up and down with each couple of steps. He'd also talk or sing to himself. If you asked, the adults would explain that he was 'shellshocked'.
We called him the Curb Walker, but no one ever made fun of him etc.
Bigdavalad
New Member
Taxamo Welf said:
Other than the Second World War (mostly thanks to the German/Soviet Union mass murder attempts), the majority of victims in war are soldiers (although some of the conflicts remembered on Nov 11th haven't been all out wars).
Have you seen how many people joined up in the first few days of World War 1? There were so many, the recruiting offices had to send people home because there was no where for them to live. They joined up to fight for their country in what they saw as a just war against an aggressor.(Britain declared war because 'big bully' Germany had invaded little Belgium). There were plenty who lied about their age - it's believed the youngest casualty was in fact 13 or 14. You don't lie about your age to join something you don't want to be part of.
I joined the Army because (a) I've always wanted to be a soldier, (b) get a trade and (c) because I actually do believe in 'Queen and Country'.
As for the people who seem obsessed with 'Class' - the most dangerous job on the front line in the British Army was young subulterns (junior officers) who often had a life expectancy of less than six weeks, and almost all of them would have been what are considered the 'upper classes'.
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