Notting Hill Carnival 2007

[Dan U]

Ahh yes that's the one! Pineapple tribe. Brilliant vibe...everyone dancing in the sun, cold beers in hand, hardly any police at all. That for me was the best part about the whole carnival bar none.

We went up a few more streets to a couple more sound systems and the vibe was completely different. Some parts felt very edgy and tense and overcrowded and there were more police and paramedics around as if anticipating something will kick off.

yeah it was fat. Ninebars immense rig and Pineapple Tribe DJ's

my only comment on Carnival policing is an anecdote told to me by a friend of mine who is a Sergeant in the Met. He said he isn't allowed to work Carnival anymore because he had the temerity to arrest someone a few years back when he was a PC. Doesn't look good on the crime figures apparently

 

[tarannau]

How much crime do you think would be acceptable for a street festival of over 1 million people, many of whom are drawn from the most disadvantaged and crime ridden areas of London? 206 arrests doesn't seem particularly huge given that context, particularly when the number of officers has gone up so massively.

 

[detective-boy]

What's the efficacy of these points like anyway? Surely anyone carrying would see them in the distance and turn round and find alternate methods of transport. Are they worth the aggravation and ill feeling they cause?

I fully agree with the need to understand the perceptions of people both being searched and those seeing the operation.

As for efficiacy ... it's like almost all preventative police work ... it's almost impossible to know for sure. There is certainly a level of success in making arrests and seizing weapons - and even one or two less knives or guns in the pockets of people willing to use them is worth something having. There is certainly a degree of deterrence - anecdotal evidence from suspects and from other intelligence confirms that but the extent is unmeasurable. There is certainly scope for people to change to alternative means of getting weapons in - but even that, by putting the bad guys on the back foot is worth something (disruption is a recognised tactic in many areas of crime) and there are other tactics being used in other places and to deal with other methods. And they do provide a level of reassurance to those who fear those carrying weapons.

If the downside could be better managed I personally think they would be clearly worth the effort. As things stand, I think they probably still are as part of a tactical mix. But the public should continue to press for better deployment by the means of informed criticism (and NOT simply by "It's racist profiling" ... because that can usually be demonstrated to be false and, hence, the validity of the criticism is totally undermined).

 

[detective-boy]

DB did you actually read all of the post you selectively quoted?

Er, yes. But it seems you don't even read your own posts:

....And for your information Nobody on this thread has shouted racism.

Surely you can see my how my confusion may arise. As I now have not the faintest idea what you are saying I shall leave you to your meanderings.

 

[detective-boy]

Dear god...objective?...surely you mean subjective?

The entire point of the PACE Code of Practice was to replace subjective grounds with objective grounds. That is the law. It is the practice of competent officers. If there are officers who do not comply with that requirement they should, quite rightly, be taken to task over it. The best way of ensuring that is to complain every time it happens.

Have you written to the Commissioner complaining of what you saw?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Er, yes. But it seems you don't even read your own posts:



Surely you can see my how my confusion may arise. As I now have not the faintest idea what you are saying I shall leave you to your meanderings.

Dear god man ....I didn't shout racism, I commented on what seemed to be racial profiling. I can see a difference, can't you?

.....and yes leave me alone, there's a love.

 

[detective-boy]

Either Liddle's being particularly stupid, or he's trying to score a cheap controversy and mislead with the figures.

He is also somewhat economical with the truth when he implies that the arrest figures on their own tell him anything about the level of crime. What were the arrests for? Crime? Or minor disorder? Even if crime, crime affectinbg victims? Or "victimless" stuff like possession of drugs? And how many of them led to charges? Or were all "on suspicion of" something with the suspects being released without charge later?

If it was a crime-fest as he implies you can be assured the police would be making that plain with their commentary. Otherwise they would paint themselves into a corner next year, likely to receive less funding for the event as "last year's was so trouble-free" even though they know they need more.

 

[detective-boy]

I can see a difference, can't you?

No. Because there isn't one. Searching someone based solely on their race is, er, racist. Fact.

 

[eoin_k]

Am I the only person who thought that the police were making their presence felt more than they have done in the last couple of years. I saw them making a few arrests, and some of the crowd control measures seem to serve no purpose other than to make them feel more in control...

 

[Groucho]

I used to go regularly back in the 80s. Haven't been for years.

 

[Treacle Toes]

No. Because there isn't one. Searching someone based solely on their race is, er, racist. Fact.

Fact huh? You yourself have argued that racial profiling is down to targeting certain groups that are known/expected to be offenders.....you have thrown statistics at me to justify why this happens and berated me because you thought I was shouting racism.... Big Yawn.

Anyway I'm bored already, but there is one question I dying to ask you Sherlock...who killed Wellington?

 

[detective-boy]

Fact huh? You yourself have argued that racial profiling is down to targeting certain groups that are known/expected to be offenders.....you have thrown statistics at me to justify why this happens and berated me because you thought I was shouting racism.... Big Yawn.

I have never justified racial profiling. It cannot be justified. Please do not misrepresent me.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Still no clue as to who killed Wellington?