Not happy at school

[_angel_]

SBL - you're right it is a failing of the whole school esp the nursing intervention. It does need sorting out. If they can't oversee this, how would they cope with a child with more serious medical conditions??

Tbh if they refused to admin medicine at my sons school -- there would be no school at all.

 

[Homeless Mal]

I have not said it is the teacher's job to administer the medication.
My opinion is that the teacher should have stuck to the arrangement that we agreed on. Instead she has failed to meet that arrangement in a way that is harmful to my sons health and she has not kept me informed. Not so much as an informal conversation to say that she was not comfortable and wanted to come to some other arrangement.

The school should have clear procedures in place to deal with children like my son who need to take their medication during school hours, why they haven't implemented it since he started full time education and why the school nurse has not been involved is a mystery to me but it seems the school does not want to call in the school nurse or to discuss alternative arrangements they just expect me to go up there four times a day even though I have explained to them why I can't.

Besides the fact that I am unable to do that I also don't see why I should have to do that. I am legally obliged to send my son to school and they have a duty of care to make sure that his needs are met. Yet they disagree to the alternatives I suggest and do not involve the members of staff who might be able to facilitate his supervision. Instead they put me into an untenable position where my only options involve removing him from the school.

I dont blame this teacher entirely, the school management have clearly messed up on a few levels but these particular problems have only arisen since september.

I re-read this thread last night and am worried I have been very unkind though that has not been my intention. You actually did say right off the teacher was under no obligation. Your son is very lucky to have you as a mum, going in to bat for him and all. I hope it all works out.

 

[BlueSquareThing]

I guess teachers should never comfort unhappy kids, then, or hand them a tissue, or tell them the way to the toilets. Teachers of very young kids should never ask the office for a spare pair of pants when little Billy wets himself, or help little Amy do her coat up.

Teaching isn't just about delivering lessons - you know that as well as I do. With very young kids, a lot of the work isn't related to school subjects at all.

Of course it's not - but at the same time there may be *lots* of very good reasons why the teacher feels uncomfortable or unhappy to do this particular job or feels that she's creating a situation where she's setting a precedent for example.

Sure it's about the whole person - of course it is.

 

[BlueSquareThing]

In this particular case though I am not blaming the teacher, I like the teacher and I have said previously in this thread that I don't expect teacher to assume the responsibility of the meds but I do expect the school to make some provision.

Yes, you're quite right of course. I just felt the teacher was getting focussed on, perhaps by others and didn't really have any voice here.

In truth I am quite offended that someone I entrusted my child to didn't have the courtesy to speak to me about it, to tell me that she felt the arrangement we agreed was not working and she felt the school should take over and sort something out.

That's an entirely fair point.

My complaint lies with the school and the complete mismanagement of the situation. Also with the school nursing team for not reviewing and updating his care plan. With the head teacher for the adversarial stance they have taken.

That sounds entirely reasonable - and would be the focus of any issue that I'd take up with the LEA or whomever. To be honest, a wide ranging "complaint" which takes in all sorts of bits and pieces is prolly more likely to be seen as one without justification (i.e. someone not liking the school and so using every opportunity to complain and make life harder - I'm *not* saying you're doing this btw). If I were in this situation I'd focus totally on the one issue and not try and broaden it - fwiw.

Here's a thing - your sons school has 850 kids in it yes? My sons has 55 or so (in 5 year groups). I know that one of the admin people would take a timer/alarm and set it and would be able to go and tell the teacher that it was time for meds. And that's in a school with a very small number of admin people - 1-4 depending on the day. But I know that the admin team could do it there.

I see absolutely no reason why in a school of 800+ there shouldn't be the admin capability to do this, particularly if they have a nursing team attached in any way.

 

[scifisam]

That sounds entirely reasonable - and would be the focus of any issue that I'd take up with the LEA or whomever. To be honest, a wide ranging "complaint" which takes in all sorts of bits and pieces is prolly more likely to be seen as one without justification (i.e. someone not liking the school and so using every opportunity to complain and make life harder - I'm *not* saying you're doing this btw). If I were in this situation I'd focus totally on the one issue and not try and broaden it - fwiw.

I agree with that. If you include too many different factors too, then the school could respond to the other factors and leave out the one that really matters.

 

[scifisam]

Of course it's not - but at the same time there may be *lots* of very good reasons why the teacher feels uncomfortable or unhappy to do this particular job or feels that she's creating a situation where she's setting a precedent for example.

Sure it's about the whole person - of course it is.

I did say earlier that I don't think she should be obliged to, and an LSA would be better. It's just that I can't imagine why any teacher would not want to do this. You say there are lots of reasons, but I can't think of any, because it's such a simple thing to do.

I mean, you said that you wouldn't do it personally, but you're coming from the perspective of a secondary school teacher, not primary, and you're also talking theoretically - it might be different if there was a real kid in front of you.

 

[BlueSquareThing]

I did say earlier that I don't think she should be obliged to, and an LSA would be better. It's just that I can't imagine why any teacher would not want to do this. You say there are lots of reasons, but I can't think of any, because it's such a simple thing to do.

I mean, you said that you wouldn't do it personally, but you're coming from the perspective of a secondary school teacher, not primary, and you're also talking theoretically - it might be different if there was a real kid in front of you.

Yeah, it might be: and it's certainly very different dealing with 13 year olds to 5 year olds.

I'd be concerned that if I did forget then there might be a major medical issue as a result. SBL mentioned renal colic earlier - although I don't think that's related to not taking the boy's medicine directly. That's precisely why, although I'd *try* to remember I couldn't give an assurance that I *would* do.

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

Yeah, it might be: and it's certainly very different dealing with 13 year olds to 5 year olds.

I'd be concerned that if I did forget then there might be a major medical issue as a result. SBL mentioned renal colic earlier - although I don't think that's related to not taking the boy's medicine directly. That's precisely why, although I'd *try* to remember I couldn't give an assurance that I *would* do.

Where they have given him teh whole days dose in one afternoon and not completed the dose provided that is directly affecting his kidneys because without going into too much detail, that puts a strain on his kidneys as well as causing peaks and troughs in his blood levels which is precisely what we need to avoid. Not to mention me having to weake him during the night so that he can complete the whole days medications without having htem crammed together

I went to the other school and they are so welcoming and supportive. I explained briefly to them my concerns based on this bad experience and they left me feeling quite reassured that they would meet his needs. They told me who and how, said they have similar arrangements in place for other children and did not bat an eyelid. They seem to see it as part of the picture. *huge sigh of relief*
It's seems to be a very nurturing and supportive school but they've also implemented mroe assessments and their academic attainment has apparently improved a lot since the ofsted report.
Most importantly ShiftyJunior is excited about going there.
They've got staff that have come from the previous school and a parent who works there now and she told me that they've heard a number of horror stories about that school.
More parental involvement, more fun and community based activities... it's eutopia I tell ya! It's about 40 minutes away but I am more than willing to put in the extra effort to get him somewhere that he will be happy.
He will be starting there on Wednesday

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed and yes BlueSquare I will need to make a concise complaint but I want all of my concerns to be addressed. I will try to separate the class management concerns form the medical ones because they are different issues but I think they are equally important.

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

I re-read this thread last night and am worried I have been very unkind though that has not been my intention. You actually did say right off the teacher was under no obligation. Your son is very lucky to have you as a mum, going in to bat for him and all. I hope it all works out.

Thanks Homeless Mal

 

[BlueSquareThing]

Hey, that's really good news - hope it all goes really well

 

[thought]

. I think expecting a 6 year old to self medicate and do it correctly is ridiculous.

Agreed!

Ironic i wasnt allowed to keep my medication on me, because of health and safety when i was at school.. How many bottles of medicine are wandering around schools these days!

Poor kid, needed support not hassle from so called teachers. I hope he settles well in his new school.. Good luck to you both!

 

[scifisam]

Yay that the school seems so good and he can go there so soon. A fresh start will probably help him in lots of other ways, too.

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

Yes I am holding much hope that the new school will prove to be a better environment *all crossables crossed*

I received a letter from the old school this morning, in it the head says that my son should be at school, can't seem to understand why he's not.
He has said he's confused about the medications believing that he should have one dose at school and one dose at home despite my repeated explainations of what is required and why.
He also says he's confused as to why I want a copy of my son's file, suggesting that I view it at the school and they will photocopy the parts I want whereas i want a copy of the whole file so that for use in preparation of my complaint. I requested it under the freedom of information act so they aren't in a position to refuse and I know the timeframe they have to comply.
He also says that they don't think the school has been having problems with this but they are responding to my concerns.

I have an appointment on monday in which I will tackle him on the evident lack of communication and the unreasonable expectation that my son should self medicate without support.
I will separately raise my concerns about class management and I will once again give him the facts and see what he chooses to do with them.
I am also seeing the school nurse and hope to ascertain why my son's care plan has been neglected for two years, whose job is it to ensure that care plans are reviewed and that they reflect the child's needs and who should be responsible for arranging additional support when it is required.
I won't tell them I've got another placed lined up as I haven't signed him up yet and a such I don't think I'm obliged to.

I'm not entirely sure about how to make my complaint as it is a foundation school and I'm told that complaints should be taken to the governors. However I'm also reliably informed that the governors are a bunch of yes men and don't take parents very seriously, I'm hoping due process will override this. How much involvement would the LEA have? If I'm unhappy with the govorners response how much could the LEA do about it?
I need to find out more about the foundation school set up and accountability.

 

[Looby]

The new school sounds brilliant SBL, I hope he will be very happy there.

No advice to offer about the complaint but good luck because the school need to be made accountable for this shambles.

 

[Ceej]

Most schools operate a three-step complaints policy - the school, then the Govs, who will have to set up a panel of govs which must not include parent govs who have children in the same year as your child or any staff - they will be interviewed by the govs and make a statement, as will you. They have to meet within certain timescales, and respond within certain timescales. Next step is the local authority, and if you're still not satisfied, you can appeal to the Secretary of State for Education, but you must have gone through the three-steps first.

The Govs panel ime (I'm the school manager in a primary) is a bit of a glossing over exercise - the complaints we've had made against the school tend to come out a draw. The govs will say something like 'the parents claim was upheld as she DID feel insulted by the teacher, but the govs equally find that the teacher did not intend to be insulting' sort of thing, so be prepared for that to be an empty exercise.

It's such a shame that your poor son has had to go through all this - in my borough we are forbidden to administer medication, but we have alarm clocks to in the office to shout up the little 'uns to take their medication under supervision. All medication is kept in the office, clearly labelled with the child's name and details of the dosage. It really isn't an insurmountable problem, to be honest.

Hope his new school are able to be a bit more pro-active, Shiftybaglady - though 850 kids is a bit for a primary - I've got 450 and we're the biggest in the borough!

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

Thanks Ceej, that's really helpful info

Hope his new school are able to be a bit more pro-active, Shiftybaglady - though 850 kids is a bit for a primary - I've got 450 and we're the biggest in the borough!

That was the old school. It is enormous isnt it. I'm told the school even wants to start up an academy type secondary school
as a follow on for their pupils. I think thats an incredibly bad idea given the extent to which they are already institutionalised.
ho hum.

 

[Ceej]

Can't be a lot of room for individuality in a school that size. I really don't know how you manage a school that big. I've worked in mine for 6 years and we in the office know all the children (except the Reception class - we need a year to absorb them!) and we know their parents, their circumstances and, to a major extent, their personalities.

Don't let them brush you off, Shiftybaglady, good schools are happy to be accountable and poor ones need their cards marked. I hope your son is happier in the new school x

 

[madamv]

Good luck tomorrow sbl and for wed too x

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

ah thank you madamv

 

[_angel_]

sizes of primary schools

Most schools operate a three-step complaints policy - the school, then the Govs, who will have to set up a panel of govs which must not include parent govs who have children in the same year as your child or any staff - they will be interviewed by the govs and make a statement, as will you. They have to meet within certain timescales, and respond within certain timescales. Next step is the local authority, and if you're still not satisfied, you can appeal to the Secretary of State for Education, but you must have gone through the three-steps first.

The Govs panel ime (I'm the school manager in a primary) is a bit of a glossing over exercise - the complaints we've had made against the school tend to come out a draw. The govs will say something like 'the parents claim was upheld as she DID feel insulted by the teacher, but the govs equally find that the teacher did not intend to be insulting' sort of thing, so be prepared for that to be an empty exercise.

It's such a shame that your poor son has had to go through all this - in my borough we are forbidden to administer medication, but we have alarm clocks to in the office to shout up the little 'uns to take their medication under supervision. All medication is kept in the office, clearly labelled with the child's name and details of the dosage. It really isn't an insurmountable problem, to be honest.

Hope his new school are able to be a bit more pro-active, Shiftybaglady - though 850 kids is a bit for a primary - I've got 450 and we're the biggest in the borough!

I went to see one around here that had about 900 kids in it! And they let nursery/ reception and year one all into one big space for part of the day. There were about 200 of them! That was just too much. I think primary schools should be smaller.

Hope the new school works out for SBL's son!

 

[Ceej]

Bloody hell - 900? That's the size of some of the secondary schools around here!!!

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

Hmm. I'm not sure whether I am bemused or furious about the latest episode.
I met with eh head yesterday and tried to cleaqr up his evident confusion and explain what the medications were,showed him the box which described how they shold be prepared(i do all the preparation but he was unclear about it so i showed him), told him how they are administered at home and how I think they should be done at school, we almost came to an agreement but again he said that there was no member of staff that could possibly remind my son at a set time to go to the office to take his meds.
I refused to give him permission to call my son's doctor, I told him that I would prefer correspondence about my child to be in writing and a copy to be forwarded to me. He told me I was being difficult and delaying things even though I have made every effort to make myself available for discussions.

Anyway, today I received a letter in which he completely disregards every thing we discuseed. Says he is still confused about the method of administration and he still doesnt know how many times a day he should have them at home and home many at school (despite lengthy discussion the day before). Still unsure about the preparation issue depsite showing him the box where it clearly describes what is to be done and explaining it to him.
He also says that the school will not provide work for my son to do until this issue is resolved because I have decided to keep him at home and he is not excluded and therefore they are not obliged to provide work. The day before he told me he would send it out by the end of the week.
Also he says that I am depriving my son of his education and that the school are obliged to inform social services.
In the letter he also seems to deny my freedom of information request to have a copy of my sons file.
Unbelievable.

I went to today to sign the papers at the new school and thankfully my son starts tomorrow. He's a bit nervous but still excited