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North Wales Helicopter Crash

Discussion in 'Wales/Cymru' started by Kesher, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. Kesher

    Kesher 나를 잊지마요

  2. agricola

    agricola atomic materialist

    Sad news.
     
  3. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Successfully Refuted & Thick

    "Local conditions were described as atrocious with visibility down to less than 10 metres in places."

    Suicidal to fly in those conditions although it may have hit them unawares I guess.
     
  4. bi0boy

    bi0boy Power User

    Not the first time Irish businessmen have been involved in a helicopter crash while flying in bad weather. Some perhaps pertinent recommendations made here concerning privately operated helicopter flights between the UK and Ireland.
     
  5. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    I live in south-west Wales where the weather at that time was appalling. I'd looked up the weather forecast for north Wales and it was worse. And I had no intentions of going anywhere near a helicopter.

    They were off to a christening apparently. God works in mysterious ways eh?
     
  6. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Successfully Refuted & Thick

    I don't imagine becoming disorientated in a chopper ever ends well. I'm no expert on their gizmos and gadgetry but I was under the impression that visibility is important, preferably of the horizon, in order to keep it under control; unlike planes that can pretty much fly themselves.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  7. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    As with fixed-wing aircraft, there are two kinds of 'flight rules': VFR, and IFR. VFR means visual flight rules, i.e. that you must constantly be able to see where you're going, and IFR means instrument flight rules, meaning that you can rely on your instruments to navigate. Both pilot and aircraft must be certified for IFR in order to be permitted to carry out such flights.

    The helicopter in this crash was a Twin Squirrel which can be certified for IFR.
     
  8. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Successfully Refuted & Thick

    I had you in mind when I was making my claims. And 2hats.
    Like I said I know less about chopper avionics than I do aeroplane ones but they can't be up to much if poor visibility results in death for choppers where as planes will gladly fly through.
     
  9. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I once refused a flight in a Jet Ranger because in looking around it I realised because of weight saving it seemed to be more flimsy than my motorcycle. Someone else took my seat and as it took off I think the pilot misjudged the weight because he nearly clipped a building.

    I didn't regret my decision for a moment. :)
     
  10. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    The AAIB will eventually describe what happened in this case. Until then it's futile speculation. Helicopter or not, anyone can kill themselves by flying any kind of aircraft into a clouded mountain. Really the big question here is whether they were properly equipped to do whatever they were doing, or whether they should have cancelled/aborted at some point.
     
  11. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Successfully Refuted & Thick

    I assume they have to submit a flight plan like planes do. It's probably daft flying a piston plane into bad weather but commercial jets are equipped for the occasion is what I meant.
     
  12. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Commercial jets certainly have a higher level of equipment but the reason they aren't regularly flown into mountains (any more) is primarily because of higher standards and far better ingrained process, not because of aircraft capability.

    In other words, you don't need a jet engine, you need to be a diligent pilot with good decision making and risk awareness. And even then stuff can go wrong.

    In general, private helicopter charters and the like are probably at higher risk because it's more weakly regulated, under customer pressure, often flown lower and more dynamically than fixed wing, and so on - and only then, add the higher inherent risks posed by mechanical failure etc

    Consider Colin McRae for example, who killed himself and his passengers by taking inappropriate risks.
     
  13. OneStrike

    OneStrike Well-Known Member

    It is reported that all of the victims were from the same family, awful.
     
  14. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad RIP Greebo being kinder heckling from the back!

    I know the area of the crash site, but not very well, it is mountainous in British terms ... and with difficult terrain, with relatively few roads.

    However, what I'm wondering, why the pilot was flying low enough to bump into the ground ? surely, if the terrain is known to be, say 2500 feet, then you fly at least 3000 ft ...
     
  15. dylanredefined

    dylanredefined Not a house elf a tiger

    Suddenly changing from visual flight to instrument flying conditions is a major cause of helicopter crashes. Or controlled flight into terrain CFIT as the abbreviation has it. Instrument rating for civilian helicopters is difficult and expensive I have heard of military pilots failing it. Hope it was quick for the poor sods.
     
    Magnus McGinty, agricola and mauvais like this.
  16. OneStrike

    OneStrike Well-Known Member

    edit: dylan just posted a better response above.
     
  17. dylanredefined

    dylanredefined Not a house elf a tiger

    Being lost, Trying to fly under the weather, becoming disorientated lots of reasons for a helicopter to crash. Some mechanical faults will cause a crash and there is nothing the pilot can do about it.
     
  18. Kesher

    Kesher 나를 잊지마요

  19. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Thing is, and this is 'speculation' as its only based on media reports, it looks like they did turn back over the Irish sea. The media quote contact as being lost (radar) over the sea whereas they crashed up to 50 miles before this, or east of this, over the mountains. If they were last in contact by radar over the sea and were headed for Dublin, but crashed into Welsh mountains, this suggests, logically, they turned around at some point. Note, the original search was a sea search. The land search was initiated due to mobile phone data.
     
  20. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Successfully Refuted & Thick

    I don't understand radar losing contact at the wrong location. Even if they did turn round why did it lose contact? Or if they didn't turn round why did it report the wrong location?
     
  21. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Yep. I'm with you there. But there's no getting away from the original search being sea (because of lost radar) and the second, successful search being land, because of mobile phone data.
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  22. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Successfully Refuted & Thick

    Ironic that they shouldn't have had their phones on as it can interfere with flight instruments (well they say this on commercial flights, that doesn't mean helicopters have the same instruments).
     

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