North Korea, the truth?

[Yuwipi Woman]

Animism isnt' really a useful concept, and it's certainly not synonymous with Shamanism.

The stuff I posted would be significant if true, because it would indicate a stubborn thread of resistance amidst the horrors of the Juche regime.

I think you're reading too much into it. The survivial of one bit of traditional religion may not mean much if it's being co-opted by the state, but it's definitely interesting ethnographically. Other religions have a toe-hold there as well. Cheondism has over 2 million adherents. They used to have a major political party (Chondoist Chongu Party) in North Korea, but it's been abolished in every way except in name.

 

[Idris2002]

Thanks for that, this Cheondism thing does look interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheondoism

Back on topic, I've seen various pieces over the past few years arguing for the existence of a burgeoning black market in the DPRK, especially near the Chinese areas. That's another area that would bear watching.

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

A South Korean citizen has actually just defected to North Korea, by going through the DMZ.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asia/korea/2009/10/27/230362/Pyongyang-says.htm

I can't really get my head round doing that and obviously it happens very, very rarely. There were few cases of American soldiers defecting to North Korea back in the 1960s and there is a fascinating documentary which visits one of of the defectors in Pyongyang which is good for getting a rare glimpse of N.Korea and what it's like.

 

[innit]

I recommend this book on DPRK, although it's a few years old now:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Under-Loving-Care-Fatherly-Leader/dp/0312322216

and have also been recommended this one, although I haven't read it yet:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/North-Korea-Paranoid-Peninsula-History/dp/1842774735

 

[not-bono-ever]

Im not an apologist for the Kims, indeed I view the DPRK as a sick stalinist theme park along the lines of Ceaucesus Romania, but with more torture and bloodshed ( but not as much as the RW press would make it out to be ) - they were chums in the '70s - but the activities of the christian groups who take in defectors are a little suspect and I know that many of the ex DPRK citizens they shelter are prompted and scripted to say whatever they are told - and are quiote happy to do this - its pragmatism after all & anything is better than being sent back to NK and the inevitable shit storm they would find themselves in. Citizens are aware of the pecking order & entire family lines are blacklisted due to the bogus activities of some long dead ancestor - the DPRK uses traditional Korean "face" & heirachy conventions to keep a lid on things, rather than mass murder and massive concentration camps.Still shitty though.

With regard to the black market - its more of a Kim family business - they do take a slice of these unoffial activities & they do not happen without tacit approval of the family & their regional govenors - KYI is a fanatical micromanager ( or was until his recent stroke ) and oversees pretty much every economic & social decision personally - hence the chaotic economy and the steel plants that produce such low grade steel , that is is pretty much unsaleable.

Stand in the middle of the bridge on the northern border, looking back towards NK and the enforced darkness of the towns vs the neon of the Chinese side is pretty shocking

The chinese are pivotal in keeping the regime in place & true to form, it is used as a buffer, but also as a little bit of needling antagonism to the rest of the regions & indeed the USA

 

[not-bono-ever]

Horrible.

Any country that boast of country wide spontaneous mass celebrations of the beloved leader's birthday is pretty much guaranteed to be fucking awful.

Hows the reading of the turgid Kim Il Sung book going ?

 

[Giles]

As a rule, countries whose residents are not allowed to leave, on pain of death or torture if caught trying to escape, are doing things badly wrong.

Giles..

 

[Diamond]

There's an interesting article in the Economist this week on HR abuses in N.Korea which sheds some light on day to day life under the regime:

Hell on Earth

From nuclear top to black-market bottom, the state is one giant protection racket.

 

[not-bono-ever]

There's an interesting article in the Economist this week on HR abuses in N.Korea which sheds some light on day to day life under the regime:

Hell on Earth

interesting article and probabaly not to far off the mark - thought the numbers in camps / prisons may not be accurate - no one really knows.

The corruption of NK to the benefit of the Kims is probabaly correct also - someone in the intelligence "business" did confirm that DPRK embassys are expected not only to be self sufficient funding wise, but to turn a profit and return the proceeds back to PY, via the infamous banco Deltain Macau IIRC

With the Japanese convinced that its Meth problem originates in the DPRK labs and much finger pointing about the surge of superdollar fakes coming form the Intalegio ( Spelling mistake obv ) banknote printer that the DPRK owns, its not surprising that internal corruption is at such a supposed high level- though as a visitor, I never saw anything of the corruption - though all the western toursit hotels have hard currency brothels with Chinese prositutes - all officially sanctioned

The use of EWC research does throw up some questions - again, Im not an Kim apologist, but a US Federral Government established research body may not be the best source for stats, but then again, there is nothing to suggest that the report is erroneous or intended to mislead - oddly, in earlier DPRK articles in the economist, I have seen various urban myths trotted out as fact as a matter of course, despite many having no basis in reality - eg The Dear Leader completing a full round of golf in 36 strokes - I know who started this rumour and it has now been accepted as fact

 

[rikwakefield]

I once went there to do "asset recovery" on a 757 that a Chinese airline couldn't afford the lease payments on. It seemed to be mainly completely fucking horrible. Breakfast in the hotel was cold rice. They had ran out of chopsticks (CIA sabotage) so the waitress gave us a couple of pencils each. The whole country is made of fail, but at least it's epic fail.

Eating cold rice with pencils. Says it all really.

 

[birte]

I don't think we can really know what it's like in north korea. And from what we do hear, I don't know how reliable those sources are or how much the stories are changed just so that things don't sound as bad as they really are.