No Sharia Law UK

[eyehurtalot1]

March 7, 2009, North Terrace, Trafalgar Square, 3:30-4:30pm

Symbolic demonstration in support of one law for all in Britain and against religious based tribunals followed by a march to Red Lion Square from 4:30-5:30pm

March 7, 2009, 6:00-8:00pm, Conway Hall, 25 Red Lion Square, London WC1R 4RL

Public Meeting on Sharia Law, Sexual Apartheid and Women's Rights

Speakers include: Sargul Ahmad (International Campaign against Civil Law in Kurdistan Iraq head), Yasmin Alibhai-Brown (Journalist and British Muslims for Secular Democracy Chair), Naser Khader (Democratic Muslims Founder), Gina Khan (One Law for All Spokesperson), Kenan Malik (Writer and Broadcaster), Yasaman Molazadeh (One Law for All Legal Coordinator):Maryam Namazie (Equal Rights Now – Organisation against Women’s Discrimination in Iran and One Law for All Spokesperson), Pragna Patel (Southall Black Sisters and Women Against Fundamentalism founding member), Fariborz Pooya (Iranian Secular Society and Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain Chair), and Carla Revere (Lawyers’ Secular Society Chair).

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Er, we don't have Sharia law in the UK.

 

[Herbert Read]

Britain would to turn into some European Sharia stronghold if it was not for people like you. You British vanguards of Britishness.

'lol'

 

[lunatrick]

Er, we don't have Sharia law in the UK.

yet

 

[FridgeMagnet]

yet

There are also no moves to install Sharia law, any more than there are moves to have a big Thunderdome put in the Old Bailey.

 

[Yossarian]

There are also no moves to install Sharia law, any more than there are moves to have a big Thunderdome put in the Old Bailey.

Sharia law is accepted as law in civil matters in some jurisdictions, but only if all parties agree to it, and I'm not sure if laws you can opt out of count as laws.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Not really, I would say.

I'm warming to the Thunderdome idea though.

 

[quimcunx]

I'm going to impose Sharia Law in my flat. And if my flatmate doesn't like it, well, he can move out, can't he.


And I can build a Thunderdome in the spare room.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I'm going to impose Sharia Law in my flat. And if my flatmate doesn't like it, well, he can move out, can't he.


And I can build a Thunderdome in the spare room.

Should he even be in a flat with a woman on her own to whom he's not related or married?

and likewise for you?

You may be in for a whipping

 

[bluestreak]

if you don't like sharia law, may i suggest you move somewhere else?

 

[butchersapron]

Some more info and here

A new report showing that Muslim women are discriminated against and encounter gross bias when they subject themselves to Sharia adjudications was welcomed today (BBC link) by The One Law for All Campaign, which is supported by a variety of organisations and individuals.

The campaign's spokesperson Maryam Namazie said: This research reinforces our own findings that Sharia Councils and Muslim Arbitration Tribunals are discriminatory and unfair. However, the solution to the miscarriages of justice is not the vetting of Imams coming to the UK as the report has recommended but an end to the use and implementation of Sharia law and religious-based tribunals. She added: At present these Sharia-based bodies are growing and appear to have some sort of official backing. But they are leading to gross injustices among women who are often unaware of their rights under Britain's legal system.

This is also connecetd to International Women's Day. Good luck to the campaign.

 

[Herbert Read]

Sharia law is accepted as law in civil matters in some jurisdictions, but only if all parties agree to it, and I'm not sure if laws you can opt out of count as laws.

For civil disputes when both parties agree to adhere to a Muslim court. It's things like divorce and wills. A far cry from the chopping off of hands that people fear.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Some more info and here



This is also connecetd to International Women's Day. Good luck to the campaign.

But the thrust of this doesn't seem to be "say no to participation in Sharia law arbitration, stop pressure on women to submit to patriarchal systems". It seems to be more promoted on the basis that the UK is somehow now going to enforce Sharia law. Londonistan, you can't say anything about Muslims these days etc.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I thought I saw a documentary where some people did go to a conciliation/divorce service under Shariah law in the UK. It usually consisted of some bloke telling a woman that she ought to try harder at the marriage and then come back again in a few months if it still wasn't working and then they'd grant the divorce.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

For civil disputes when both parties agree to adhere to a Muslim court. It's things like divorce and wills. A far cry from the chopping off of hands that people fear.

Yes, of course.

The question to me is: Should the state intervene and prevent informal tribunals?

Any Sharia court will need both parties to agree and no judgement will be legally binding, so it's not 'law' really at all. You could liken it to a disciplinary hearing at work – if you disagree with the result, you can always take it to a 'proper', legally binding industrial tribunal.

I have no doubt that Sharia courts, presided over by the equivalent of village elders who also happen to be religious leaders, will discriminate in ways that many of us would find objectionable, and there may be some equally objectionable pressures put on the parties to comply, but is it the state's place to stop them from happening?

 

[bluestreak]

Ah, now that's more interesting. Thank you butchers. Fridge is right though, this comes across as anti-Islam rather than anti-patriarchy.

 

[butchersapron]

But the thrust of this doesn't seem to be "say no to participation in Sharia law arbitration, stop pressure on women to submit to patriarchal systems". It seems to be more promoted on the basis that the UK is somehow now going to enforce Sharia law. Londonistan, you can't say anything about Muslims these days etc.

It doesn't strike me that way to be honest and i think the list of prominent muslim signatories should allay any fears. But perphaps that's because i was already aware of the campaign and a lot of the people involved.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It doesn't strike me that way to be honest and i think the list of prominent muslim signatories should allay any fears. But perphaps that's because i was already aware of the campaign and a lot of the people involved.

I'm not familiar with the campaign, and I don't doubt that the organisers aren't out to do anything bad, and for that matter I think the less religious arbitration around the better.

I have to say though that the response to it, at least on the net, seems to be an awful lot of agreement on "Eurabia" grounds as well as the idea that Sharia law has actually been made UK law already, and it is being posted around on those grounds too, and if that ends up being the effect it's actually worse for women and everyone else.

 

[quimcunx]

I don't think it makes it as clear as it might. Which would be fine except for the background of media hysteria, headlines and the very word, ''Law'' that seems to have give the impression that we're all going to be subject to Sharia Law within the year.

Sharia Law looks to me like voluntary mediation that is supposed to be tailored to Islamic religious and social codes that may or may not be contrary to the UK's social mores and may also be biased against women.

I'm not sure that this is something the government should be ruling against..... in theory. Making sure all British citizens are aware of their rights and protecting them from abuse, bullying and prejudice from within their own communities as well as without is within their remit though.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think the less religious arbitration around the better

I do too, but how do you stop it?

And should you want to try to stop it? I think it's a question of control what is controllable – so, for instance, if you want to reduce the numbers seeking religious arbitration, you may wish to a) make secular arbitration easier to access, and b) end ludicrous things like state-funded religious schools.

 

[laptop]

Interesting thing is, if they want to outlaw it they'll have to get rid of the Beth Din as well.

Which would be no bad thing for a Jewish woman who needs a divorce.

 

[kabbes]

There are also no moves to install Sharia law, any more than there are moves to have a big Thunderdome put in the Old Bailey.

Two men enter! One man leaves!

And the Thunderdome too.

Ooooh, satire. What do you mean it doesn't make sense? It's satire, it doesn't have to.

 

[bluestreak]

Interesting thing is, if they want to outlaw it they'll have to get rid of the Beth Din as well.

Which would be no bad thing for a Jewish woman who needs a divorce.

I don't know anything about the Beth Din. Do they have a bias towards men?

 

[laptop]

I don't know anything about the Beth Din. Do they have a bias towards men?

I know specifically that there was a campaign by women who had been denied divorces by a Jewish court in London. Is all.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I don't know anything about the Beth Din. Do they have a bias towards men?

Only in so much as if a husband refuses to grant his wife a divorce - a 'get' - then she can't have one.

 

[bluestreak]

hmm, well we need to get a protest against this too. i wonder if this organisation would do so.

 

[quimcunx]

Doesn't seem to have garnered the same amount of publicity, that Beth Din thing...

 

[laptop]

hmm, well we need to get a protest against this too. i wonder if this organisation would do so.

Looking at the list of names on this organisation... that's why I say "interestingly".


I rather look forward to the Chief Rabbi standing up to defend Sharia law (for civil matters). He has no choice, really

The Archdruid already did, for similar reasons - he has a whole branch of the English legal system - Canon Law - that still deal with disputes over CoE property (I know not what else).

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Looking at the list of names on this organisation... that's why I say "interestingly".


I rather look forward to the Chief Rabbi standing up to defend Sharia law (for civil matters). He has no choice, really

The Archdruid already did, for similar reasons - he has a whole branch of the English legal system - Canon Law - that still deal with disputes over CoE property (I know not what else).

Don't disciplinary issues relating to CofE priests come under ecclesiastical law as well? Like if they have an affair and get chucked out of their job and their vicarage or something?

 

[Wolveryeti]

Sheikh Hassan, Senior Judge and Secretary of the UK Sharia Council:
‘We know that if Sharia laws are implemented then you can change this country into a haven of peace. Because once a thief’s hand is cut off, nobody is going to steal. If only once an adulterer is stoned, nobody is going to commit this crime at all. There would be no rapist at all. This is why we say that, yes, we want to offer it to the British society. … And if they don’t accept it, they would need more and more prisons.’

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/divorce.html


Given the views of a senior member of the body that oversees these courts, I am deeply uncomfortable with Sharia law having even a fig leaf of legitimacy in this country. There is as far as I know no watchdog overseeing the verdicts sharia courts hand out in this country. It's all very well saying both parties have to consent to a Sharia-style mediation. I think in practice at least some who object to this will face strong familial and cultural intimidation, or will believe that the ruling is final.

Good luck to the marchers, I say.