No rage at rail fare increases again thread?

Discussion in 'transport' started by cybershot, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. tim

    tim Well-Known Member

    There was never anything straightforward about Sadiq. As to the rolling stock. Do we really have the oldest stock in Europe? Certainly in London both TFL and National Rail seem to have upgraded much of their stock in recent years. And a few months ago there was lots of grumbling about the new Southwestern Railways franchise getting rid of trains that the previous franchise holder had only just bought. French and Italian railways also seem to operate some pretty decrepit trains on their less prestigious lines.

    British trains also seem to crash less than they did in the past, particularly in the immediate aftermath of privatisation; or they currently do on the Continent. So there is, perhaps, a league table we can feel relieved not to be doing so badly on.
     
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  2. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    You know that stuff in the shops that you buy. It got there by magic...


    ... or by road. Guess which.
     
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  3. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    So.... my lettuce takes 20min longer to get to Tesco’s before I buy it 2 days later, then what?

    Alex
     
  4. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    And you can’t say the same about rail subsidies how?

    Alex
     
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  5. Badgers

    Badgers Mr Big Shrimp!

    Have seen a few people mention that first class tickets have not increased in price. Anyone else heard this or got a source?
     
  6. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    I'm not disagreeing with you, mate.

    Like I say, I don't necessarily buy the argument that road improvements help everyone anyway, but what I do think is that those unable to drive because they can't or can't afford it are more likely to use the bus than the train. You can improve the roads all you want, but if you only have one ancient bus an hour, that goes all around the houses to get to town, bus users aren't going to see the benefit of road improvements.
     
  7. Badgers

    Badgers Mr Big Shrimp!

  8. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Fucking off rail investment in favour of roads is all well and good if you measure your regular journeys in tens rather than hundreds of miles.
     
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  9. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    Emergency services use them, although we could give them 4x4s I guess.
     
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  10. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    Sure. But my understanding is that inter city rail is profitable anyway without subsidies?

    Am I wrong on this?
     
  11. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    No idea but it doesn’t run on different infrastructure.
     
  12. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    How much time have you spend in the Midlands and the North?

    Firstly that isn't a dig, lots of people in the Midlands and the North haven't spent much time in London either. Anyway 30 year old sprinters and pacers are the norm at my local station, competing with even older HSTs to pump out filthy diesel fumes into the air. Even the Voyagers are 17 years old this year and starting to look very tired.
     
  13. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    Well to some extent it does. I don't think many local services use our two best railways, the ECML and the WCML?

    Anyway, all I'm saying is 'at least see what 3.2 billion a year would buy us, in terms of bus and possibly tram systems'. When something is expensive, overcrowded and consuming billions a year in subsidies and still manages to be utterly shit you have to at least ask the awkward question, even if the answer is to carry on doing what you are doing.
     
  14. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Bus services are also shit outside of major cities for the same reason train services also are: underfunding and privatisation.
     
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  15. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    No arguments there, none at all.
     
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  16. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Ridin' a Stutz Bearcat, Jim

    Possibly beause London hoovers up most of the infrastruscture investment. Some of the services in the north you're lucky if you don't have to get out and push.
     
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  17. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    There’s a problem with where to direct infrastructure spending - do you put it where it will definitely be used to the max (the south east) or where it might be used (and ultimately rebalance the economy) but doesn’t necessarily have the same immediate benefit.
     
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  18. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse Free the Sepsis Six!


    The TOC’s don’t buy the trains, they lease them so that another layer of profit can be sucked from the system.

    SWR seem to have the same trains as SWT did and these are all OK as they run to London, see the crap they use oop North, Tis the kind of shite you’d expect to find in Iran.
     
  19. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Good news on that front though as our beloved tories are again eyeing up privitisation of Network Rail.
     
  20. tim

    tim Well-Known Member

    This is what I was half-remembering, trains that have just been delivered that the new franchisee has promised to replace by 2019.

    We shouldn't worry though because Grayling is absolutely certain that another operator will adopt them

    UK transport secretary ‘absolutely certain’ Class 707s have a future | Global Rail News

    It seems wasteful to me.
     
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  21. OzT

    OzT Online early mornings when at work ....

    But it is Network Rail that cause 90% of train delays by over running works or badly maintained lines causing speed restrictions.

    Then again you can argue it is very hard for Network Rail to really do completely good work as nobody wants their lines closed whilst the work is being carried out, the only 2 days the whole netword shuts down being Christmas day and Boxing day.
     
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  22. Stanley Edwards

    Stanley Edwards 1967 Maserati Mistral.

    I'm not sure how you lot manage in the UK these days.

    Just spent a couple of days looking at towns within a reasonable commute by public transport from Lisbon. I need Lisbon for work, but don't want to live there. I'm deciding between Two small towns (the smallest is actually no more than a village). One option by a very good bus service (7 a day, 1 Hour 40 Minutes, and just €11.50). The small village option has a train directly into the center of Lisbon for just over €10. A very slow, but pleasant 3 Hour journey. Not an everyday option, but I only plan to use it Twice a week. This in Western Europe's supposedly poorest economy??? No idea how trains and railways are funded, or operated here, but it all seems very healthy, and extremely good value.

    Why does the UK seem to be totally incapable of providing good public transport?
     
  23. OzT

    OzT Online early mornings when at work ....

    Maybe the problem is the UK, specially southern side, is a small area with a lot of people and not much more room for infrastructure to grow, for example, land to put new rail lines or build new roads to, and with roads once built no room for car parks.

    The rail network, for example, cannot now run any more trains than they are cause there are just not enough free tracks to run more trains. They can only run longer trains on some of the lines, and usually only after extending platforms on a lot of the stations.

    My 2c worth
     
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  24. Dogsauce

    Dogsauce Lord of the Dance Settee

    Portuguese railways aren't very healthy - there's been loads of closures over the last two decades, especially narrow gauge stuff in the north. Some of the trains and infrastructure are in a right fucking state, the line my girlfriend's parents live on has second-hand railbuses from the Czech Republic, rattly old things covered in graffiti. There's no high speed rail, plans for this (which included a link to Spain) were abandoned with the onset of austerity.

    The nature of the country doesn't lend itself to public transport very well, for a long time there was no centralised planning process, people just built wherever they liked, so outside of cities housing is low-density and spread out, meaning a lot of people are remote from amenities and stations/bus routes. Because of this it's become a very car-orientated society (with the resultant opposition to investment in stuff like railways - the 'why should I have to pay for something I can't use' attitude).
     
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  25. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    It's so, so awful that what can you say? I'm just counting the days until I don't have to use the broken commuter system any more. Hopefully, that's exactly 1000 days today.
     
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  26. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    I guess your view on whether you think public transport in the UK is any good will very much depend upon where you live. I live in London and personally think its excellent, could it be better? Sure but the integrated payment system and extensive network is what most cities could only dream of. Also despite Johnson's best efforts buses are still a reasonably inexpensive way of getting around, especially if its longish bus journey.

    Whether it's generally good value is a completely different matter. Train and tube travel in London is pretty expensive, train travel generally though is scandalously expensive and clearly commuters get the brunt of this. It pisses me off no end the amount of times I think about using the train but end up jumping in the car because its massively cheaper.
     
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  27. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. Regret, transience and disillusioned fortitude..

    Not got any news on this, but as Mrs S pointed out (yet again) this morning, after receiving an alert about the Leeds bound Virgin eastcoast service. The carriages that are cut are always the 'packed like sardines' standard class carriages not one of the two quarter full first class carriages. Wouldn't want to upset those commuters would they!
     
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  28. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    I learnt today that Germany has something called the Bahn 100 card.

    1249 EUR (£1114) for three months, for which you get the ability to travel anywhere in Germany, any time, by DB train or bus, as much as you like.
     
  29. Stanley Edwards

    Stanley Edwards 1967 Maserati Mistral.

    I need to research this. I call €10 for a ride from the country capital to a tiny village some 150 KM North pretty healthy. Slow, but so what? High speed rail other than a link from Lisbon to Madrid seems pretty pointless.

    I haven't sat in a car in all the time I've spent in Portugal. Much time walking, but if I needed to be somewhere in time, I have used public transport. It has been fantastic. I recall once having to wait for a bus that was 20 minutes late. I can live with that.

    Rural buses between modern urbanisations are not so good, but who the fuck would want to live there anyway. If you're into car from door to door and TV life, then I guess you don't need to think about public transport.
     
  30. Artaxerxes

    Artaxerxes Well-Known Member

    Outside of London and the very centre of the other major cities the public transport is absolute and total shit.
     
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