No rage at rail fare increases again thread?

Discussion in 'transport' started by cybershot, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    If you use the trains how much more expensive is your ticket from today?

    How much more expensive has it got over the years?
    Badgers likes this.
  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    where's Bungle73 when you need him?
  3. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    32% according to the placards being held by protesters. And good luck to them. Theivery is what it is
    NoXion, Slo-mo and Badgers like this.
  4. Badgers

    Badgers Mr Big Shrimp!

    In our hearts
    A380, marty21, neonwilderness and 2 others like this.
  5. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    We now have the most expensive trains in the EU and the oldest. At least we're at the top of two league tables.

    I've given up moaning about it, I've been beaten into submission. Even Sadiq Khan who I thought, foolishly, was pretty straightforward about no fare increases managed to increase the fares and pretend he hadn't.
    kabbes and Badgers like this.
  6. Artaxerxes

    Artaxerxes Well-Known Member


    The absolute fucking state of the trains and the constant fare increases just leaves you kind of numb eventually, sort of angry and bitter but unable to get worked up any further about it as its so far out of your control and apparently just seen as normality.
    mwgdrwg, Slo-mo and Badgers like this.
  7. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad heckling from the back!

    Not only will we be getting shafted by the price increases, the much vaunted "improved" rolling stock is actually rebuilds of another area's cast-offs !
    What ? me being cynical ? nah, not really ... just telling it like it is !
    and even the railcard discounts are lesser amounts than they were, years ago.
    Badgers likes this.
  8. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery Banned

    He tried but foolishly made the announcement before checking whether he actually had any power to do so. He only has power over TFL fares and tickets contractually linked to TFL. Doh!
    Badgers likes this.
  9. xenon

    xenon Sweep and cut

    Brexit is a 'nationalist spasm': Lord Adonis resigns as infrastructure tsar

    From Lord Adonis' resignation letter in that article.

    "However, I would have been obliged to resign from the commission at this point anyway because of the transport secretary’s indefensible decision to bail out the Stagecoach/Virgin East Coast rail franchise. The bailout will cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of pounds, possibly billions if other loss-making rail companies demand equal treatment. It benefits only the billionaire owners of these companies and their shareholders, while pushing rail fares still higher and threatening national infrastructure investment. It is even more inexcusable given the Brexit squeeze on public spending.

    The only rationale I can discern for the bailout is as a cynical political manoeuvre by Chris Grayling, a hard-right Brexiteer, to avoid following my 2009 precedent when National Express defaulted on its obligations to the state for the same East Coast franchise because it too had overbid for the contract. I set up a successful public operator to take over East Coast services and banned National Express from bidding for new contracts. The same should have been done in this case. Yet, astonishingly, Stagecoach has not only been bailed out, it remains on the shortlist for the next three rail franchises.

    The East Coast affair will inevitably come under close scrutiny by the National Audit Office and the public accounts committee, and I need to be free to set out serious public interest concerns. I hope the PAC calls Sir Richard Branson and Sir Brian Souter to give evidence. I am ready to share troubling evidence with the PAC and other parliamentary committees investigating the bailout.

    As you know, I raised these concerns with the chancellor and the transport secretary as soon as the bailout became apparent from the small print of an odd policy statement on 29 November majoring on reversing Beeching rail closures of the 1960s. I received no response from either minister beyond inappropriate requests to desist."

    Fuck these people. Give us back our railways.
  10. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery Banned

    But private companies have made lots of money for their rich Tory share holders so silver linings etc.
    Badgers likes this.
  11. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    Train operating companies revenues are capped by the government. If they make more they have the excess back to the government. Conversely if they don't make what they expect the government pays them.
    sealion and Badgers like this.
  12. Badgers

    Badgers Mr Big Shrimp!

    Not checked sources but...

    sealion and Pickman's model like this.
  13. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse In the area

    I no longer commute. I did slog in to town for 15 odd years, the trains got more crowded and more unreliable as the fares marched upwards. The service is now so unreliable that I can’t make use of it, so I no longer pay £4000 every year, but rather work from home. I still get alerts from the TOC, every single day there is something wrong and once a week something major goes wrong. A bunch of dads at BB2’s school are on a WhatsApp group for drinks etc., those that commute also use it for sharing cabs home when the trains can’t get them there, this is half way to Portsmouth from London, there is no tube or bus option, yet the trains regularly fail to work, fuck that shit.
    kabbes, A380, Riklet and 2 others like this.
  14. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank We kill the flame

    'Free enterprise'

    Badgers likes this.
  15. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    Like most public spending it is a shell game.
    Badgers likes this.
  16. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank We kill the flame

    You'd think they'd make more effort to pretend it wasn't. But then I suppose they've had several decades of political consensus that privatisation is the best thing since shredded paedophilia allegations so why would they?
    Bahnhof Strasse and Badgers like this.
  17. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    Off peak return tickets from both Nottingham and Derby to the smoke are now the wrong side of a ton for me, and the trains are overcrowded and pretty much as old as I am.

    I don't like taking the car to London of all places but until something changes I'm either gonna be using the M1 or just staying at home. Not everyone has that option of course.
    Badgers likes this.
  18. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat hmm

    Celyn, marty21 and Badgers like this.
  19. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Expletive, expletive, expletive....
    Slo-mo likes this.
  20. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad heckling from the back!

    Arriva Wales is supposed to average at +3.3% - I will have to check the actual amount for my preferred route.

    The other areas I use are ??? so more checking required !
    Badgers likes this.
  21. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    It really is ridiculous. Even looking at tickets a month in advance, and it's still cheaper for me to just fill up the car. Now I know I have running costs with the car etc as well as the initial outlay, and tax, insurance etc, but surely we're at the point if not already, where depending on the distance, there probably isn't that much in it?

    Add in the fact in a car you've got the convenience of door to door transport and that added convenience becomes a no brainer. It should be the other way around, encouraging people to stop using cars and to not mind perhaps 20 min walk, or even just dumping the car at the station to get on the trains.

    I mean just where exactly does all this money go if this...

    Is true, then, what exactly is the point of all these private companies?
    NoXion, Slo-mo and Badgers like this.
  22. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    This is where the money goes UK rail industry financial information 2015-16 | Office of Rail and Road

    The reason we are seeing such big increases in rail fares is that direct subsidies ( ie cash from government ) are falling

    So fares are rising more to make up for it.

    Badgers likes this.
  23. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    We are subsidising the railways to the tune of 3.2 billion a year, yet they are still shit. I do wonder what 3.2 billion could achieve in terms of a really good road based coach/bus network, preferably using electric buses.

    I'm not saying do it, I'm saying at least run the numbers.

    I do realise many on the left would disagree with this.
  24. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    Not going to be helped by reports that our roads won't deal with automated vehicles very well as they are simply not wide enough. I can see the point when roads in America for example are hugely wide. It's sometimes tight just getting up my road due to all the bad parking, I suspect an automated vehicle would just give up.
  25. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    New road spend is £15bn. You get a huge bang for your buck with rail. It is just very hard to see when your face is stuffed in some geezers armpit.
  26. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    But the most obvious beneficiaries of that £15bn are private motorists (yes people might argue we all benefit indirectly)

    Switching at least some of the 3.2 billion from rail based public transport to road based public transport would unlock the benefits of road spending for more people including those who can't drive or can't afford a car.
  27. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    How do people who don’t drive benefit from road spending ?

    editor and Slo-mo like this.
  28. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Banned Banned

    The argument would go that it boosts the economy which benefits us all. So someone advocating that position would say that the money spent on the new road lets the businessman and his staff go to work, they pay taxes which we all gain from. I'm not saying I buy that 100% and it sounds a little bit 'trickledowny' to me, but even at the most basic level we all* buy food which has been moved by road, whether you shop at a large supermarket or a corner shop.

    *unless you live on a self contained small holding, obvs. But that is a tiny number of people.
  29. tim

    tim Well-Known Member

    I don't live on a smallholding, but like a large percentage of people in a large conurbation. I'm not really to sure where these roads would go around here, or where the cars that run of them would be parked.

    Do you live in the 1950s? Does the businessman go home at night to his little lady? Do pipes and slippers have a role to play?
    rioted likes this.
  30. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    They benefit you the services that use the transport network. They also get to see those hilarious youtube videos of cyclists picking fights in moving traffic.

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