No go zone for DESI

[cemertyone]

Facts and figures please, as the insurgents and suicide bombers seem to be bumping off a hell of a lot more Iraquis than they are US or UK solidiers, if the daily TV news bulletins are anything to go by.

So you would dispute the figures of 100,000 dead Iraq`s since the begining of the invasion???????

 

[oizir]

Well it would appear that this great democracy that the likes of Tobyjug et all constanly tell us is so fucking fantastic....simply CAN`T or WON`T tolerate any form of political dissent for their ARMS fair bosse`s..
Now were are not even allowed to protest peacefully any where near the EXCEL centre itself.....
Well that being the case the fucking MET are gonna be in for the hardest time they had had for a while....because the people we are running with are simply NOT GOING TO ACCEPT THAT and these cunts are deliberatly setting this event up for a serious confrontation between us and them..
If thats the way they want it fine but i can assure the little snicky bastards who monitor these sites of one thing...
YOU ARE IN FOR A FUCKING BATTLE..that`s going make the poll tax riots look like a walk in the garden......
Every road, every access point,every fucking hotel and transport company every businees dealing with these cunts is NOW FAIR GAME we are gonna fuck you cunts like you never believed.......
you and your bosses have pushed us to the extreme and now your gonna pay the price for that....
NO fucking prisoners this time around.......

 

[Bigdavalad]

So you would dispute the figures of 100,000 dead Iraq`s since the begining of the invasion???????

Where have 100,000 dead come from? According to Indymedia (the first result on a google search for Iraqi Civillian Casualties), there was 24,865 civvies reported killed in the first two years of the war. The coalition killed 37%, post invasion violence killed 36% and the insurgents killed 9% (which seems very low to me, considering how many bombs are going off a day in Baghdad and the surrounding area). No idea about the other 18%, they don't get mentioned anywhere.

Source Here

 

[tobyjug]

but not british troops?

#

British troops, (well if you discount the fact that Michael Bentine was a Peruvian national fighting in the British army).
He was quite open about going into the nearest German town with fellow soldiers and killing civilians until officers stopped them.
It was however a very exceptional circumstance.

 

[cemertyone]

Where have 100,000 dead come from? According to Indymedia (the first result on a google search for Iraqi Civillian Casualties), there was 24,865 civvies reported killed in the first two years of the war. The coalition killed 37%, post invasion violence killed 36% and the insurgents killed 9% (which seems very low to me, considering how many bombs are going off a day in Baghdad and the surrounding area). No idea about the other 18%, they don't get mentioned anywhere.

Source Here

Will come back to you with the figures tomorrow...but as usual your way off the mark and i`m begining to wonder if you and toby are the same person....

 

[tobyjug]

So you would dispute the figures of 100,000 dead Iraq`s since the begining of the invasion???????

Not in the slightest. I would challenge that British soldiers have been executing civilians out of hand in large numbers because it just has not and is not happening.

 

[cemertyone]

Not in the slightest. I would challenge that British soldiers have been executing civilians out of hand in large numbers because it just has not and is not happening.

I don`t think any one here say`s the have been....and the suggestion that they have is silly...... but none the less our US cousins dont appear to have the same regard forhuman life as UK forces...but even they are not whiter than white on this issue....

 

[tobyjug]

I don`t think any one here say`s the have been....and the suggestion that they have is silly.

That is exactly what has been suggested. According to at least one rabid anti British army muppet on this thread wide scale atrocities by hte British army are going unreported in the British media.
When asked for a source to back up their contention none has been forthcoming.

 

[Bigdavalad]

Will come back to you with the figures tomorrow...but as usual your way off the mark and i`m begining to wonder if you and toby are the same person....

Well, Iraq body count says between 23,000 and 26,000 - I think it was a briefing by them that indymedia was reporting. Still a fair way from 100,000.

And me and tobyjug have never even met, as far as I am aware.

 

[X-77]

there was 24,865 civvies reported killed in the first two years of the war.

and that figure would be ok to you?

Iraqi lives don't mean a fucking thing to you do they?

 

[tobyjug]

and that figure would be ok to you

What an odd question? If a war is fought in urban areas civilian casualties are inevitable, regrettable but inevitable.

 

[Bigdavalad]

and that figure would be ok to you?

Iraqi lives don't mean a fucking thing to you do they?

Tell you what, you find where I said that number was ok, or that I didn't give a fuck about them, and I'll give you a shiny pound coin for every one of them.

Tit.

 

[tobyjug]

and that figure would be ok to you?

Iraqi lives don't mean a fucking thing to you do they?

Does the several hundred thousand Saddam bumped of one way or another mean anything to you?

 

[FreddyB]

Does the several hundred thousand Saddam bumped of one way or another mean anything to you?

How about the thousands killed off by santions? And as per your previous post, yes large civlian casualty numbers are inevitable in an urban campaing which makes their deaths premeditated does it not?

 

[X-77]

How about the thousands killed off by santions? And as per your previous post, yes large civlian casualty numbers are inevitable in an urban campaing which makes their deaths premeditated does it not?

the estimated figure that died (murdered) under sanctions is closer to a million, half a million of which were children

 

[X-77]

Does the several hundred thousand Saddam bumped of one way or another mean anything to you?

yeah so let's go bomb another few hundred thousand more - nice 'logic'

 

[X-77]

Tell you what, you find where I said that number was ok, or that I didn't give a fuck about them, and I'll give you a shiny pound coin for every one of them.

Tit.

so it's not ok then?

 

[X-77]

What an odd question? If a war is fought in urban areas civilian casualties are inevitable, regrettable but inevitable.

this was not a 'war' it was an unjustified, illegal invasion.

 

[Bigdavalad]

so it's not ok then?

No, it's a shame when any civillian dies in a conflict.

 

[Pickman's model]

it's a shame when a one-day cricket match's abandoned due to rain.

i'd have thought it somewhat more than a shame when a civilian's killed in a conflict.

 

[tobyjug]

this was not a 'war' it was an unjustified, illegal invasion.

It may come as a bit of a shock to you but I was against the invasion of Iraq long before anyone here on U75 ever mentioned it.
I was not against it for the same reasons as the wooley liberals though.
Nowhere near enough materiel and personell was used and it has led to the complete and utter cockup I expected.

 

[X-77]

It may come as a bit of a shock to you but I was against the invasion of Iraq long before anyone here on U75 ever mentioned it.
I was not against it for the same reasons as the wooley liberals though.
Nowhere near enough materiel and personell was used and it has led to the complete and utter cockup I expected.

what do you believe to be a 'wooley liberal' reason? People bleating on about all those civilians that were going to die a horrific death? People who saw through the neo-con/Blair agenda? Do tell

 

[tobyjug]

what do you believe to be a 'wooley liberal' reason? People bleating on about all those civilians that were going to die a horrific death? People who saw through the neo-con/Blair agenda? Do tell

I was more interested in the several hundred thousand Saddam had already killed and the number he was going to continue to kill.
What really angered me was it was bloody inevitable that invading Iraq with totally inadequate force was going to prolong the agony and kill off a lot more civilians as an emergent property.

 

[X-77]

I was more interested in the several hundred thousand Saddam had already killed and the number he was going to continue to kill.
What really angered me was it was bloody inevitable that invading Iraq with totally inadequate force was going to prolong the agony and kill off a lot more civilians as an emergent property.

and the 'wooley liberal' reasons were what?

 

[tobyjug]

and the 'wooley liberal' reasons were what?

The usual anti war no matter what the circumstances.

 

[cemertyone]

What an odd question? If a war is fought in urban areas civilian casualties are inevitable, regrettable but inevitable.

But toby, a " War" is fought by TWO sides ( bill hicks thing).......it was not and cannot be described as a " war " in any traditional sense of the word....

 

[tobyjug]

But toby, a " War" is fought by TWO sides ( bill hicks thing).......it was not and cannot be described as a " war " in any traditional sense of the word....

In all practical terms it was a war.