No Border Camp in Calais 23rd-29th June

[In Bloom]

Yeah - if you're going to get rid of borders, you're going to have to abolish capitalism too, as otherwise it would essentially mean a return of colonialism, with companies having complete carte blanche to move to countries which currently limit them from doing so.

There's not really that much in the way of limits on the movement of capital though, compared to movement of people.

 

[sim667]

Didnt even know this organisation existed lol.......

Although im a very liberal person, i wont be supporting im afraid....

 

[goosegrease]

Nobody in No Borders (to my knowledge) just wants totally open borders for the UK alone under capitalism, it's a silly strawman.

Frankly, if workplace and community organisation by and for the working class were as widespread as I (and I suspect you) would like it to be, the economy would completely collapse into an even worse state than the one it is in now. Our needs cannot be fully met under capitalism, surely that's the whole point?

I see it as a point that through working class organisation the physical assets of capitalism and the skills of the working class can be used to build a society of cooperation and common ownership of resourses. democratic communism.
I detect a "kick it until it breaks" approach here. Do we want to wreck capitalism and then hope that revolution comes or do we encourage the seizing of the means by witch a revolution can provide humanity with what it needs? appolls for getting so far off the original point.

 

[In Bloom]

I see it as a point that through working class organisation the physical assets of capitalism and the skills of the working class can be used to build a society of cooperation and common ownership of resourses. democratic communism.
I detect a "kick it until it breaks" approach here. Do we want to wreck capitalism and then hope that revolution comes or do we encourage the seizing of the means by witch a revolution can provide humanity with what it needs? appolls for getting so far off the original point.

I think you've misunderstood me somewhat. I do see the organisations that must develop in order for struggle to become a challenge to capitalism (workers' councils, strike committees, community associations, whathaveyou) as the seed of a free society, but in order to challenge capitalism, these organisations must be antagonistic to the demands of capital, rather than trying to manage capital to proletarian ends.

But yeah, this is pretty far off topic, the point I was originally trying to make is that trying to manage capitalism by speculating about having no borders under capitalism (which isn't going to happen anyway) is an exercise in pointlessness.

 

[goosegrease]

yep, I can have those convos over a beer or 10 elsewhere.

 

[In Bloom]

I think we can all agree that the mechanisms of revolutionary struggle are best discussed over large ammounts of booze

Anyway, despite a potentially misleading name, No Borders do some excellent work in terms of community organising around immigration and asylum issues.

 

[In Bloom]

lulzapoppin

No borders is active in most if not all european countries and has links to AFED and Antifa which means that yes, these people are borderline retarded and would love nothing more than to turn england into a lawless, racially mixed squat hole.

 

[moon23]

It's been pointed out here allready in a way, but NO Borders could be the motto for globalised capitalism.

 

[In Bloom]

It's been pointed out here allready in a way, but NO Borders could be the motto for globalised capitalism.

It's also been pointed out that that's a fucking retarded argument. But do go on.

 

[moon23]

It's also been pointed out that that's a fucking retarded argument. But do go on.

Whereas recourse to swearing is a sophisticated position? Without borders global capital can always hire in the cheapest labour driving down standards. Capital also moves money without borders taking it to where taxes are lowest. Untill you tackle problems with globalisation workers will see immigration as working against thier class interests. What we need are internationaly agreed borders for capital, legal borders that protect against exploitation

 

[durruti02]

It's also been pointed out that that's a fucking retarded argument. But do go on.

no it is not but i'll start a thread on general about it ( guessing this thread should be for announcements and updates )

 

[moon23]

http://nobordersbrighton.blogspot.com/2009/06/more-daily-mail-lies.html

So the No Borders group are complaining of lies in the Daily Mail, but what are the aims of the camp if not for any direct action?