Nicky Cruz/TRUCE Gig "Un-Banned" At Police Insistence?

[Paul Marsh]

The arrival of the gangster turned evangelist Nicky Cruz has been quite a big story in Hackney recently (see for example page 3 of the current Hackney Gazette, plus the letters pagge and editorial)

Cruz's organisation was brought to the borough by an evangelical police officer, Supt Leroy Logan. Unfortunately Cruz, and the TRUCE, hold views on gay people that, if shouted in the street would get you arrested and prosecuted.

A proposed gig at the council owned Hackney Ocean on 27 and 28 July was (according to the Gazette website) cancelled due to the local furore, with people asking is this the sort of nonsense council taxpayers money should be spent on.

Now it is being suggest that these reports were "premature" and after police intervention, the gig may well be back on:

http://davehill.typepad.com/temperama/

Has anyone else heard any more on this?

 

[TAE]

He's a christian, of course he will have certain views on certain subjects.

That does not mean that he is homophobic or sees gays as second class citizens/people/christians.

 

[Dubversion]

He's a christian, of course he will have certain views on certain subjects.

That does not mean that he is homophobic or sees gays as second class citizens/people/christians.

I'm not sure the OP implied that homophobic was an essential part of Christianity, but that Cruz and his group did. Which mirrors what I've heard about them too..

 

[Paul Marsh]

I'm not sure the OP implied that homophobic was an essential part of Christianity, but that Cruz and his group did. Which mirrors what I've heard about them too..

Indeed - although he removed most of his offensive comments from his website when this story broke.

The real scandal here is that this is council taxpayers money being used to promote prejudice against one group in the community, and the police are actively organising that.

A sad state of affairs.

Given the Hackney Ocean has already gone bankrupt once, I am also surprised it wants to host an event that is going to seriously damage its standing in the borough.

 

[TAE]

I have never heard of Cruz being homophobic. Do you have any examples of things he has said? What prejudice is he promoting? It's been a long time since I've heard him speak, but I don't recall him saying anything inflamitory.

I'm sure, being a christian, that he also thinks wife swapping is wrong, but I'd be surprised if anyone is accusing him of being swingerphobic or preaching hatred against those who think wife swapping is ok.

EDIT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Cruz

 

[Dubversion]

as PM has said, he's taken down the inflamatory content from his site. But it was there, i remember the fuss some time ago

 

[TAE]

What did he say?

 

[Dubversion]

i don't recall precisely, let me google

 

[TAE]

This might help:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nickycruz.org

 

[Paul Marsh]

as PM has said, he's taken down the inflamatory content from his site. But it was there, i remember the fuss some time ago

The Hackney Gazette 13 July reported that Cruz described homosexuality as "an evil paractice" and a "sexual perversion".

The Gazette on 20 July commented "The comments that homosexuality is a sexual perversion and an evil practice have since been removed from the website"

Letters in the Gazette also quoted some strong anti-abortion comments on his website - looks like those have gone to.

 

[TAE]

The Hackney Gazette 13 July reported that Cruz described homosexuality as "an evil paractice" and a "sexual perversion".

That's it?

That's what most christians believe, is it not? I don't see any hate/fear/discrimination/prejudice in those statements, just a theological point of view that many non-christians are free to disagree with.

 

[Dubversion]

That's it?

That's what most christians believe, is it not? I don't see any hate/fear/discrimination/prejudice in those statements, just a theological point of view that many non-christians are free to disagree with.

oh fuck off. If you don't think that's homophobic, you must have some fairly dodgy views yourself.

 

[TAE]

Define homophobic. Please.

 

[Paul Marsh]

Actually some of Cruz's anti-abortion stuff is still on his site:

Recently a young would-be author was telling how the Lord had assured her abortion was acceptable in His sight!

What a horrible lie!

"It just felt so good to know I had not murdered my baby," she said. "Instead, I knew aborted children go straight to Heaven and avoid life's hassles."

What a terrible twisting of reality! Sure, murdered babies avoid earth's trials - but that gives us no right to kill them! Here was a woman so filled with guilt over destroying the life of her unborn child that she had accepted a beautiful "divine revelation" - which was false, demonic and destructive! She did not consider her "word" in light of the Bible. Why was that a mistake?

"The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens out and helps us do what is right" (2 Timothy 3:16).

 

[Dubversion]

Define homophobic. Please.

oh here we go. I don't know your agenda, i can't be bothered to hang around and see you slowly unveil it, so sorry, if you want to find out the definition of homophobic google it. As if you didn't know..

 

[TAE]

What?

ho·mo·pho·bi·a
n.

1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.

 

[In Bloom]

So you don't think describing somebody's sexuality as "an evil perversion" shows just a little contempt for them as a person?

 

[In Bloom]

That said, looking at his site, he seems to be more about being anti-violence in media, coupled with the usual "Our whole world is falling apart" hysteria.

 

[Paul Marsh]

There is certainly good money in this game - Nicky Cruz, as CEO of his organisation, pockets a cool $167,000 per annum:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=5503

And Hackney council tax payers are funding his groups visit?

 

[Paul Marsh]

The police do indeed appear to have got the gig reinstated:

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060726cruz.shtml

Anybody wishing to complain about the fact that it now appears major decisions in the borough are made by the police rather than Councillors, can do so here:

http://www.hackney.gov.uk/index.htm/l-complaints-procedure/w-complaints-form.htm

 

[TAE]

So you don't think describing somebody's sexuality as "an evil perversion" shows just a little contempt for them as a person?

I really don't think he is saying that homosexuals are worse people than heterosexuals.

 

[rutabowa]

I really don't think he is saying that homosexuals are worse people than heterosexuals.

are yu crazy?

 

[TAE]

The police do indeed appear to have got the gig reinstated:

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060726cruz.shtml

Following Cruz's apology for his comments and extensive talks between the Metropolitan Police and Hackney Council, Cruz will now be allowed to perform his 'Broadway style event' at the local Ocean venue later this week.

Hackney Council appear to have got the gig reinstated after talking with Cuz and the police.

 

[TAE]

are yu crazy?

No, why?

Cruz has now publicly apologised for the comments in a statement that was published in the Hackney Gazette. “I have nothing against gay people" he said.

 

[Streathamite]

That's it?

That's what most christians believe, is it not? I don't see any hate/fear/discrimination/prejudice in those statements, just a theological point of view that many non-christians are free to disagree with.

eh? no that's homophobia pure 'n' simple. If you think that of such practices, it don't take stephen hawking to work out what you must think of people who adopt such practices

 

[Streathamite]

The police do indeed appear to have got the gig reinstated:

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060726cruz.shtml

Anybody wishing to complain about the fact that it now appears major decisions in the borough are made by the police rather than Councillors, can do so here:

http://www.hackney.gov.uk/index.htm/l-complaints-procedure/w-complaints-form.htm

I'm doing that form right now. could as many people as possible do so? it appears to be the best redress, tho' picketing has been sugested elsewhere

 

[rutabowa]

No, why?

Because you said "I really don't think he is saying that homosexuals are worse people than heterosexuals.", when he's been quoted as saying that being gay is an "evil perversion"?

call me cynical but him apologising may have something to do with the 167,000$ wage he would start missing out on.

 

[TAE]

I know people who are in the army, I know people who knowingly go over the speed limit, I know people who get drunk. I don't agree with any of these things, but I don't dispise/hate/discriminate because of it. They are good friends and lovely people.

 

[rutabowa]

I know people who are in the army, I know people who knowingly go over the speed limit, I know people who get drunk. I don't agree with any of these things

Do you think they are "evil" though?

 

[JonnyT]

I really don't think he is saying that homosexuals are worse people than heterosexuals.

"Being black is a genetic disorder."
"Being female is a birth defect."

I'd say these are comparable to Cruz's statements on homosexuals.

Also, your quote left off the end of his statement:

But Cruz has now publicly apologised for the comments in a statement that was published in the Hackney Gazette. “I have nothing against gay people" he said. "I just want to help...that's all"

That "help" generally involves "curing" people of homosexuality.

Incidentally, Cruz's views can be found here.