Nice to see a ref who believes football is a contact sport

[fela fan]

I though the ref had a shocker last night, missed a cert penatly and a couple of tackles from behind, I don't think we'll be seeing him in the CL next season.

Like Pires?

Yes he does that, but he's not a team, he's just a player. My comments still stand, i was talking about teams, not players.

I hate it all regardless of who does it. But villareal last night took it to heights i've not seen for ages. The sheer agony written all over their faces made them look fucking ridiculous. Their patently obvious collapses to the ground didn't even contain a single effort at hiding their disgraceful practices.

Incidentally sleater, are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right?

 

[fela fan]

Part of this South American ethos involves diving whenever there is an opportunity. This attitude is most prevalent among Argentinian players and the Argentinian leagues. It's no accident that there is a very large concentration of Argentinian players at Villarreal.

That explains their behaviour! They were one of the ugliest teams i've seen for ages. Football played in a complete anti-spirit. Just like argentina in world cups.

 

[g force]

Which makes it all the more frustrating because Riquelme is IMO one the top midfield players in Europe right now. Sorin has a history of diving...and is a dirty player.

But no more so than Alan Shearer, Robbie Savage, G Neville etc

 

[fela fan]

Which makes it all the more frustrating because Riquelme is IMO one the top midfield players in Europe right now. Sorin has a history of diving...and is a dirty player.

But no more so than Alan Shearer, Robbie Savage, G Neville etc

Did you see the game mate?? You're talking of individuals, and these days every team's got at least one of them. But villareal were at it all the time, they as a side really showed up the whole dirty sordid business that exists in the beautiful game of football. It's pretty ironic really. The most beautiful sport with the most ugliest of side attractions.

And that team last night were experts at this ugly side of our sport.

 

[g force]

Irnoic idea because they're not really like that in league games - last season in particular they played some of the best football i've seen in many years. You want dirty cheating teams then never watch Sevilla...last season they were shameful.

Hence, why I suggested the occasion got to them because it looked like a totally different team - so negative and niggly. But I get the feeling that's exactly what the manager wanted!

 

[sleaterkinney]

Incidentally sleater, are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right?

No, I'm saying that your comments in the face of Arsenal's diving over the years(and it's not just pires) are to be taken with a massive pinch of salt, never mind wengers 'didn't see the incident' routine.

 

[strung out]

No, I'm saying that your comments in the face of Arsenal's diving over the years(and it's not just pires) are to be taken with a massive pinch of salt, never mind wengers 'didn't see the incident' routine.

Good point

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Blah, blah, cheating foreigners.....

A lot of people in England do seem convinced that only foreigners cheat, admittedly, which is downright stupid. It seems pretty obvious though that different countries do have different football cultures. Would you have picked up on it if someone suggested that Brazilian teams played with a lot of flair and tricks? I doubt it.

I don't recall ever seeing such a pathetic display of diving and rolling around as Villarreall came up with last night.

 

[fela fan]

A lot of people in England do seem convinced that only foreigners cheat, admittedly, which is downright stupid. It seems pretty obvious though that different countries do have different football cultures. Would you have picked up on it if someone suggested that Brazilian teams played with a lot of flair and tricks? I doubt it.

I don't recall ever seeing such a pathetic display of diving and rolling around as Villarreall came up with last night.

Nor do i, hence my comments originally. Amongst the whole charade the worst thing was how they put such grimaces of pain on their faces without any pain to stimulate this apparant agony. I reckon they fear arsenal, which bodes well for the second leg.

btw, i'm not in england, and my comments could never be construed to say i think english players don't cheat. However, on the whole they might win a league in the world of non-cheats.

 

[fela fan]

No, I'm saying that your comments in the face of Arsenal's diving over the years(and it's not just pires) are to be taken with a massive pinch of salt, never mind wengers 'didn't see the incident' routine.

Forget all your salt, you're adding too much meaning to my words that was never there. If you are telling me that i can't complain at that performance by villareal coz arsenal do similar things, then you'd better never be a ref coz your glasses are way too dark mate!

I know well that players dive for arsenal, find me a team in top leagues around the world that don't. But there's a quantam leap between what arsenal do compared to what i saw villareal do. The latter were downright disgusting, and it was enough to turn people off the game all together. What other sport demonstrates such a visible and huge level of cheating, and gets away with it?

No wonder there appears to be so few drugs in football, they don't need any performance enhancing, they're the masters already.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

A lot of people in England do seem convinced that only foreigners cheat, admittedly, which is downright stupid. It seems pretty obvious though that different countries do have different football cultures. Would you have picked up on it if someone suggested that Brazilian teams played with a lot of flair and tricks?

No. However, I don't think football cultures vary so much as to allow one to characterise Spanish teams or nationals as cheats (and I'd like to see people who say so make the claim in the bar next to this shop). I've seen plenty of diving in English football over the years - a fair bit of it in an England shirt from one Michael Owen, for instance. The difference is that in one case, we view it as an exception - in another, we view it as the rule. I wrote a piece for WSC some years ago about Diego Maradona that explored the issue in more space than I have here, but suffice to say that while accepting that football is not played in the same way asll over the globe, I think that fact is dwarfed by the tendency not only to exaggerate differences, but to ascribe unethical qualities to footballing cultures other than our own.

 

[phildwyer]

No. However, I don't think football cultures vary so much as to allow one to characterise Spanish teams or nationals as cheats (and I'd like to see people who say so make the claim in the bar next to this shop). I've seen plenty of diving in English football over the years - a fair bit of it in an England shirt from one Michael Owen, for instance. The difference is that in one case, we view it as an exception - in another, we view it as the rule. I wrote a piece for WSC some years ago about Diego Maradona that explored the issue in more space than I have here, but suffice to say that while accepting that football is not played in the same way asll over the globe, I think that fact is dwarfed by the tendency not only to exaggerate differences, but to ascribe unethical qualities to footballing cultures other than our own.

Take the 1966 World Cup quarter-final between England and Argentina for example. Most English people proabably remember it as a victory for Anglo-Saxon sportsmanship against dagoist perfidy. But the reality was quite different. It was acceptable in English football then for defenders to be "physical," and with England being at home, the Ref didn't penalize a lot of early rough challenges from Stiles et al.

The Argie captain, Antonio Rattin, a truly great player, questioned the Ref's decisions a couple of times, as was his right as captain, and was almost immediately sent off. Now, it is true that he refused to leave the pitch and had to be escorted away by a policeman, but he surely had every right to be annoyed. I reckon the English cheated their way to victory in 66--the third goal in the final being only the best-known example. But is *that* what we read in the history books, the hell it is...

 

[sleaterkinney]

I know well that players dive for arsenal, find me a team in top leagues around the world that don't. But there's a quantam leap between what arsenal do compared to what i saw villareal do. The latter were downright disgusting, and it was enough to turn people off the game all together. What other sport demonstrates such a visible and huge level of cheating, and gets away with it?

There is absolutely no difference whatsoever, diving is diving and arsenal have been so cynical in the past that I cannot believe you would hold them up as an example. If fact I'd say Arsenal are worse for diving.

 

[Mr Retro]

There is absolutely no difference whatsoever, diving is diving and arsenal have been so cynical in the past that I cannot believe you would hold them up as an example. If fact I'd say Arsenal are worse for diving.

How dare you?! Are you seriously saying Pires, Reyes and Fabregas would even dream of diving?

 

[43mhz]

off topic ever so slightly - but why was Wenger going mental when Bergkamp came on.. it was if he didn't want the substitution to go ahead but the linesman called it

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Incidentally, you might be interested to know that we don't get any of this "panel" cobblers over here, or not on terrestrial anyway. At half-time they show the news and as soon as the match is over so is the programme and you're only a couple of adverts away from an interview with Felipe Gonzalez. If he was Spanish, Ally McCoist would be unemployed.