NHS GPs are greedy overpaid pigs

[scott_forester]

No I don't think the med school press gangs will be part of the picture. All med schools get huge numbers of applicants, more than they could ever accommodate. I don't think there would ever be a problem in recruiting kids, and mature students, into medical training.

The problem is placing them for on the job training. There are plenty of examples of people with medical skills that can't get placed let alone a job.

I'm all for your idea - anyone who commits to say seven years of public service as a doctor, nurse, teacher etc should get all their fees paid back and a good wage. But you still need somewhere to send them.

What we have here is a Goverment that have outsourced the NHS and when it has blown up in their faces blame the higher earners. The very same tactic used when tube workers strike.

The Goverment is buying in Doctors to carry out operations at four times the cost for the NHS to do it. If they wanted to make medical training free they could have ten years ago. But they'd rather use PFI to pretend they are breaking thaty magic 40% borrowing limit. Set against how much of our money is being pissed away via. PFIs what GPs get is small beer.

 

[Fullyplumped]

But you're assuming people want to be GPs. The fact you have to run your own business - which isn't fun - puts people off. You've also picked up on the point that the UK underpays Doctors, Nurses etc which is why they can all get very nice jobs in sunnier places. The problem with being a GP is you get the shit end of the stick and then are asking why your hands are dirty.

My heart bleeds for the poor GPs and their terrible plight. Many self employed people work for a fifth of the £70k GPs were getting three years ago. It's a difficult job but so are lots of jobs. I don't understand why being a GP is worse than being a psychiatric nurse or ambulance person. I do know it's hugely better paid.

 

[Fullyplumped]

The problem is placing them for on the job training. There are plenty of examples of people with medical skills that can't get placed let alone a job. I'm all for your idea - anyone who commits to say seven years of public service as a doctor, nurse, teacher etc should get all their fees paid back and a good wage. But you still need somewhere to send them.

Sure, it would be necessary to reform the training structure - a detail of process, not impossible. I wouldn't give the new students their money back, though - they'll mostly end up quite well off and they shouldn't get a better deal than others.

What we have here is a Goverment that have outsourced the NHS and when it has blown up in their faces blame the higher earners. The very same tactic used when tube workers strike. The Goverment is buying in Doctors to carry out operations at four times the cost for the NHS to do it. If they wanted to make medical training free they could have ten years ago. But they'd rather use PFI to pretend they are breaking thaty magic 40% borrowing limit. Set against how much of our money is being pissed away via. PFIs what GPs get is small beer.

I don't think medical training should be free any more than other professional training should be free. Your comments about tube workers and PFI are irrelevant.

 

[scott_forester]

Your comments about tube workers and PFI are irrelevant.

If you're talking about people profiting from the NHS I'd have thought PFIs would be at the top of the list. So if a PFI bought out some practises and the managers got £100kpa that would be okay?

 

[scott_forester]

Sure, it would be necessary to reform the training structure - a detail of process

Actaully it's a detail of having access to sick people to train on.

 

[Fullyplumped]

but how many of them can afford to go through the training? how many will be clever enough to complete it? how do you make people become gps rather than hospital consultants/SHO's. I could be a doctor if it was that easy. Not sure anyone would want me looking after them though

They'd all be able to make their own decisions about affording to pay loans back from future earnings, just like anyone else. Only those clever or mature enough to complete their training should start it - there are hundreds of thousands of people who would be able to do this but don't bother because you need 99 As or whatever to get in. I don't believe we can't fill GP posts on half or a third of what they get now if the market forces are addressed - if not, nationalise them!

I don't see why you shouldn't be a doctor if you want and are prepared to make the effort. Internalised self-oppression?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Actaully it's a detail of having access to sick people to train on.

Then we can produce more!

 

[Callie]

Then we can produce more(sick people to practice on)!

Yeah! *goes and poisons a few people, kicks some old ladies and drops a few small children on their heads* great plan

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yeah! *goes and poisons a few people, kicks some old ladies and drops a few small children on their heads* great plan

At last, people are showing some imagination.

Seriously, there have ben significant advances in IT solutions to this problem, which has been around for a while. It shouldn't be allowed to constrain the expansion of medical education.

 

[Callie]

At last, people are showing some imagination.

Seriously, there have ben significant advances in IT solutions to this problem, which has been around for a while. It shouldn't be allowed to constrain the expansion of medical education.

does that mean we should get robots to make more sick people

 

[Fullyplumped]

does that mean we should get robots to make more sick people

No it means we can have students practise treating robot sick people.

 

[scott_forester]

Seriously, there have ben significant advances in IT solutions to this problem, which has been around for a while. It shouldn't be allowed to constrain the expansion of medical education.

Eh? So you'd be okay someone treating you because they've had a few hours playing Operation? Be careful they don't take your funny bone out by mistake.

I thought you "make some" comment was a pun!

 

[Kaka Tim]

My heart bleeds for the poor GPs and their terrible plight. Many self employed people work for a fifth of the £70k GPs were getting three years ago. It's a difficult job but so are lots of jobs. I don't understand why being a GP is worse than being a psychiatric nurse or ambulance person. I do know it's hugely better paid.

Yeah they're well paid.

but they also do a very useful job.

but if your looking for parasites in the NHS then the overstuffed ranks of management consultants and PFI sharks are a far more deserving target. Then there's the large numbers of friends and relations of Nu-labour sitting on the well rewarded health quangos.

but then a nu-Labour toady like yourself is not going to turn their ire on them are they?

Dereck Wanless (extemetly wealthy and wellpaid) advisor to gordon brown has attacked doctors pay rises for swallowing up most of the extra health spending he helped plan. Mate of yours is he Fullyplumped?

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1745017,00.html

 

[treelover]

I wonder who is behind this, dirty tricks?


Doctors say NHS must charge for care

Letter claims tax funding fails patients

John Carvel, social affairs editor
Monday April 3, 2006
The Guardian

An open letter from 900 NHS doctors to be delivered to Tony Blair today warns that the health service cannot survive in its present form and that individuals should expect to pay for treatment in the future.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/publicfinances/story/0,,1745745,00.html

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yeah they're well paid. but they also do a very useful job.

So do nurses and porters and medical secretaries, but you're sticking up for GPs on £130,000 a year.

but if your looking for parasites in the NHS then the overstuffed ranks of management consultants and PFI sharks are a far more deserving target. Then there's the large numbers of friends and relations of Nu-labour sitting on the well rewarded health quangos. but then a nu-Labour toady like yourself is not going to turn their ire on them are they?

This stuff about PFI is a smokescreen, and non-exec NHS board members are not that well paid for the work they do - yes, I do know some through my work, of all parties and none.

Dereck Wanless (extemetly wealthy and wellpaid) advisor to gordon brown has attacked doctors pay rises for swallowing up most of the extra health spending he helped plan. Mate of yours is he Fullyplumped?

No but he's absolutely correct. Wanless designed the expansion in NHS spending and he's rightly sickened at the piracy by already highly paid GPs and consultants of the new investment. If you weren't as consumed as you seem to be by envy of his accomplishments you'd probably agree.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I wonder who is behind this, dirty tricks?

Doctors say NHS must charge for care
Letter claims tax funding fails patients

John Carvel, social affairs editor
Monday April 3, 2006
The Guardian

An open letter from 900 NHS doctors to be delivered to Tony Blair today warns that the health service cannot survive in its present form and that individuals should expect to pay for treatment in the future.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/publicfinances/story/0,,1745745,00.html

This is inspired by an extreme right wing think tank whose single answer to any policy issue is to privatise and marketise it. Awful, awful people. Great PR, though.

 

[Streathamite]

I stand by what I said. They participate consciously in collective bargaining and have adopted a culture of extracting personal gain from us, the taxpayer. They have ditched the notion of service. It's pure greed. The money they keep isn't going into better health services and the extra tax we pay is going into their pockets. What can we do about it?

umm...given the amount of sleaze washing around the top end of the |Labour Party in recent weeks, I'd say the above words, coming from a labour loyalist, bring to mind the following 2 well-known domestic items;

and

 

[Streathamite]

You must have failed to read my earlier post.

I am suggesting that we hugely expand medical education, and train five times as many medics. That number of doctors will dilute the economic power of the profession, and will be very popular with the thousands of bright young people, and their parents, who apply or would like to apply to medical school, but are turned away. Our country would have lots more trained doctors, and those for whom there weren't jobs in this country would have skills that could gain them a living in any part of the world. Of course the ridiculous salaries would shrink and greedy kids would go into some other line of business, so it's a win-win solution all round. We might even save some lives!

what if there aren't enough people who want to incur the level of debt 5-7 years' med school study would mean, given the current arrangements?

 

[Fullyplumped]

umm...given the amount of sleaze washing around the top end of the |Labour Party in recent weeks, I'd say the above words, coming from a labour loyalist, bring to mind the following 2 well-known domestic items;(picture of a black pot and a picture of a kettle)

How does any of what you've said address the issue of increased NHS investment being hijacked by greedy GPs? Were you like this at Branch meetings?

 

[Fullyplumped]

what if there aren't enough people who want to incur the level of debt 5-7 years' med school study would mean, given the current arrangements?

Look at the huge demand for med school places. Nearly seven out of eight qualified applicants are rejected. There would be no shortage of eager applicants.

 

[scott_forester]

There would be no shortage of eager applicants.

Not until you tell them your plan to cap their earnings. They'll all choose to work for Captia on the PFI gravy train instead

 

[Fullyplumped]

Not until you tell them your plan to cap their earnings. They'll all choose to work for Captia on the PFI gravy train instead

Maybe we'd end up with doctors whose prime motivation was to serve a suffering humanity, rather than the greedy piggies we seem to get now! Just imagine all the admissions interviews at medical schools! All the bare faced lies!

 

[Isambard]

All the bare faced lies!

Like you deliberately mixing up the gross income of a surgery and a GP's net income?


Seems like Blaitites view Urban as a "must see" staging post ont eh greasy pole up.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Like you deliberately mixing up the gross income of a surgery and a GP's net income?

I amn't. See the column linked to in my very first post. GPs are now taking £130,000 pa out of their practices, NET of operating costs.

Seems like Blaitites view Urban as a "must see" staging post ont eh greasy pole up.

What does that mean?

 

[Isambard]

I'm not so sure I'd believe the GPs were taking an average of £70K as personal salary. If they WERE, I'd still argue that whilst resorces should perhaps be re-directed that would mean away from those paid a LOT more, the abovementioned PFI sharks and new-Labour cronies.

Regarding my second comment. I've seen too many Blairites cross these boards to sharpen their skills in doublethink, get their tounge up tp the correct muscle structure for use in today's Labour Party and rubbish alternative thought. I can't really be arsed. I'm glad some posters are still battling on.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What does that mean?

It means you have a rodentine odour.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I'm not so sure I'd believe the GPs were taking an average of £70K as personal salary. If they WERE, I'd still argue that whilst resorces should perhaps be re-directed that would mean away from those paid a LOT more, the abovementioned PFI sharks and new-Labour cronies.

Well it's not £70k, it's £130k. It's not me saying it, it's a GP, in the Sunday Telegraph, quoting a leading auditor. And these are average salaries.

Regarding my second comment. I've seen too many Blairites cross these boards to sharpen their skills in doublethink, get their tounge up tp the correct muscle structure for use in today's Labour Party and rubbish alternative thought. I can't really be arsed. I'm glad some posters are still battling on.

It's those of you that are trying to derail the subject of the discussion away from the thousands of greedy GPs and on to irrelevancies like PFI and non-execs who are engaged in spin and doublethink.

If I were to lose control for a bit and let my prejudices run riot, I would think that the solidarity with moneygrabbing docs shown by many of those on this board conformed to the stereotype of the student-type trustafarian trot or anarchist, happy to adopt a radical pose in his or her twenties, before moving into a lucrative city job (perhaps as a PFI consultant) or inheriting the family millions.

But that would not be fair and I'm far too nice to do that.

 

[treelover]

Ha, ha, not many of them on p/p


[/QUOTE]If I were to lose control for a bit and let my prejudices run riot, I would think that the solidarity with moneygrabbing docs shown by many of those on this board conformed to the stereotype of the student-type trustafarian trot or anarchist, happy to adopt a radical pose in his or her twenties, before moving into a lucrative city job (perhaps as a PFI consultant) or inheriting the family millions.

 

[Fullyplumped]

It means you have a rodentine odour.

It must be some of that sophistimacated London talk, maybe from Hoxton or somewhere trendy like that.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Ha, ha, not many of them on p/p

Ach you're all middle class posers, the lot of you!