NHS GPs are greedy overpaid pigs

[Fullyplumped]

It's time to say it - our GPs are shameless, money-grubbing, overpaid chancers who are bleeding the NHS dry . Their pay has soared from £70,000 pa to £130,000 pa in three years, and in the same time the demands on their time have decreased. Most of them got their education and professional training on the backs of the taxpayer, at a time when they didn't have to bother with tuition fees. All this money has eaten up the extra resources the Government has poured into the NHS.

What can we do about this?

 

[JHE]

You are partially right. GPs are very highly paid (and so are consultants). I don't think they, or anyone else, should be paid that much.

However, I see no reason to call them greedy or to call them pigs. Those few I know are not and they do not deserve your insults.

It's perfectly possible to complain about people being so highly paid without abuse.

 

[WouldBe]

Take it you didn't see panorama last week then.

Government cock-up. Trying to get GP's and consultants to do more work for more money and not realising they are already doing more than they were contracted to do.

 

[FiFi]

Not all the money going to GP's is for their own back-pocket.

They have to pay for their premises, staff, equipment, insurance, electricity/gas/water, training budgets etc, etc, adinfinitum.

I don't often stick up for them, but I will on this one.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I see no reason to call them greedy or to call them pigs. Those few I know are not and they do not deserve your insults.It's perfectly possible to complain about people being so highly paid without abuse.

I stand by what I said. They participate consciously in collective bargaining and have adopted a culture of extracting personal gain from us, the taxpayer. They have ditched the notion of service. It's pure greed. The money they keep isn't going into better health services and the extra tax we pay is going into their pockets. What can we do about it?

 

[JHE]

Not all the money going to GP's is for their own back-pocket.

They have to pay for their premises, staff, equipment, insurance, electricity/gas/water, training budgets etc, etc, adinfinitum.

Of course, but the figures we're talking about here are not those for all the money put into GP practices. We're talking about the (very high) figures for what the GPs get from their practices.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Not all the money going to GP's is for their own back-pocket. They have to pay for their premises, staff, equipment, insurance, electricity/gas/water, training budgets etc, etc, adinfinitum.

Most of it is goin into their back pockets. All professionals and traders have business operating costs, and GPs are no diffferent, but their net profits have soared. Don't make excuses for these greedy porkers.

 

[WouldBe]

What can we do about it?

Vote out the incompetant government that awarded them a pay rise for no extra work.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Vote out the incompetant government that awarded them a pay rise for no extra work.

That wouldn't help, the next election won't be for four years, and you can't seriously imagine the Tories would impose a harsher regime if they got in. The problem isn't with the Government it's with the GPs and those who speak for them.

I think we should flood the medical profession - lots of young people want to train as medics, and entry qualifications are ridiculously high. Train five tmes as many medical students, and impose strict lifelong contracts that tie them to the NHS on a reasonable wage.

Harsh, but fair.

 

[Callie]

Just think how much the gp's bosses get though!

 

[JHE]

Just think how much the gp's bosses get though!

Most GPs are their own bosses.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Just think how much the gp's bosses get though!

They're self-employed contractors. They keep the lot.

 

[Callie]

There must be a boss. Its the NHS. theres probably about 12 bosses, all paid twice as much

 

[_angel_]

I think they've been given pay rises because of the problem in attracting and retaining doctors on the nhs.

 

[Fullyplumped]

There must be a boss. Its the NHS. theres probably about 12 bosses, all paid twice as much

Well there isn't.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I think they've been given pay rises because of the problem in attracting and retaining doctors on the nhs.

In other words, because the GPs are abusing their market monopoly power. The GPs and their greed is where the problem lies.

 

[JHE]

There must be a boss. Its the NHS. theres probably about 12 bosses, all paid twice as much

No, but that does remind me of a couple of other things that are worth mentioning here.

1. Top managers in hospitals are paid a lot.

2. An amazing amount of Health Service money is spent on "management consultants". See: NHS advisers 'cost £200m' as key jobs go

 

[Fullyplumped]

No, but that does remind me of a couple of other things that are worth mentioning here.

1. Top managers in hospitals are paid a lot.

2. An amazing amount of Health Service money is spent on "management consultants". See: NHS advisers 'cost £200m' as key jobs go

Both your points are true, but not relevant to the topic, which is the unutterable greed of GPs and they way they've ditched any residual committment to public service values.

 

[_angel_]

I'd rather see the doctors getting paid a lot than the administrators and managers tbh.

 

[FiFi]

GP's are self-employed, independant contractors, usually working in partnership with others. The money awarded to the Practice is joint income, and their wages are taken out of this global sum, as are the numerous other expenses I have already mentioned.

Most employ a practice/buisness "manager", but he/she works for the GP, not the other way round.

They are contractually obliged to provide certain services, and that is laid out in the GMS Contract, but the practice can choose which of the optional servies to provide (or not).

There are frequent checks on how they are meeting their targets, and the fact they were "overpaid" last year was due to the underestimation of how much work they were already doing. They all exceeded their "target points", and so had to be paid according to the provisions of the contract.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I'd rather see the doctors getting paid a lot than the administrators and managers tbh.

I'd rather see more services going to patients than going to GPs, who were already being paid a huge amount three years ago.

Thias whole process has as seen a shift of wealth from working people to overpaid GPs.

What can we do about this, pratically, so the extra NHS money goes to pay for new and better services rather than posh cars for GPs?

 

[scott_forester]

Take it you didn't see panorama last week then.

Government cock-up. Trying to get GP's and consultants to do more work for more money and not realising they are already doing more than they were contracted to do.

Bingo

My brother is an oncologist and he works longer hours than I ever have, lots of it unpaid. T&C’s in the health service have been pretty appalling for years and I don’t begrudge the people working in it getting paid a decent wage. Truth be known they can go almost anywhere and get a better standard of living every industrialised country is crying out for staff. Of course we could carry on raping developing countries of there health service professionals to get cheaper healthcare. The Labour party has pretty much privatised the health service anyway, something most people appear to have overlooked – that’s where the money is going.

 

[Callie]

There are frequent checks on how they are meeting their targets, and the fact they were "overpaid" last year was due to the underestimation of how much work they were already doing. They all exceeded their "target points", and so had to be paid according to the provisions of the contract.

What sort of targets?

 

[Fullyplumped]

GP's are self-employed, independant contractors, usually working in partnership with others. The money awarded to the Practice is joint income, and their wages are taken out of this global sum, as are the numerous other expenses I have already mentioned.

Most employ a practice/buisness "manager", but he/she works for the GP, not the other way round.

They are contractually obliged to provide certain services, and that is laid out in the GMS Contract, but the practice can choose which of the optional servies to provide (or not).

There are frequent checks on how they are meeting their targets, and the fact they were "overpaid" last year was due to the underestimation of how much work they were already doing. They all exceeded their "target points", and so had to be paid according to the provisions of the contract.

Are you suggesting their net profits haven't soared in the past three years? Look at the article I linked to in the original post - it's a GP holding his hands up to the way that GPs have plundered the NHS.

 

[JHE]

GP's are self-employed, independant contractors, usually working in partnership with others. The money awarded to the Practice is joint income, and their wages are taken out of this global sum, as are the numerous other expenses I have already mentioned.

Most employ a practice/buisness "manager", but he/she works for the GP, not the other way round.

They are contractually obliged to provide certain services, and that is laid out in the GMS Contract, but the practice can choose which of the optional servies to provide (or not).

There are frequent checks on how they are meeting their targets, and the fact they were "overpaid" last year was due to the underestimation of how much work they were already doing. They all exceeded their "target points", and so had to be paid according to the provisions of the contract.

All true - but, as I have already pointed out, you are missing the point. The figures we are talking about are not for all the money put into GPs' practices. They are figures for what GPs typically pay themselves from their practices. And they are strikingly high figures!

 

[Fullyplumped]

My brother is an oncologist and he works longer hours than I ever have, lots of it unpaid. T&C’s in the health service have been pretty appalling for years and I don’t begrudge the people working in it getting paid a decent wage.

So he's not a GP and probably not being paid £130,000. which is an indecent wage. This is about the greed of the GPs.

 

[Callie]

All true - but, as I have already pointed out, you are missing the point. The figures we are talking about are not for all the money put into GPs' practices. They are figures for what GPs typically pay themselves from their practices. And they are strikingly high figures!

So maybe the best thing to do would be to demand that gp's surgery 'books' are open for inspection to make sure that the money is being used to provide a service and a sensible wage to the staff (inc the gp's themselves).

I assume there must be guidelines set to determine why and how much gp's get paid - who sets this? I cant believe that they have total free reign to decide their own wages.

 

[Fullyplumped]

So maybe the best thing to do would be to demand that gp's surgery 'books' are open for inspection to make sure that the money is being used to provide a service and a sensible wage to the staff (inc the gp's themselves).

I assume there must be guidelines set to determine why and how much gp's get paid - who sets this? I cant believe that they have total free reign to decide their own wages.

A central problem for the NHS since its birth has been the need to stuff the mouths of GPs with gold. They have never been greedier than now, though. Look at dentists if you want too see what happens when greed takes over. Their market power means that they can opt out if they want, the insurance companies will finance them, and the rest of the NHS can go to hell.

Is there any way to nationalise the greedy pigs? Probably not. So flood the market.

 

[scott_forester]

So he's not a GP and probably not being paid £130,000. which is an indecent wage. This is about the greed of the GPs.

Fair point, but I’ve noticed recently that since the Government has been asked to explain where all the money has gone there are lots of stories about consultants, GPs etc getting high wages. Maybe I just see spin everywhere?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Maybe I just see spin everywhere?

So look beyond the spin, often generated by the BMA, and focus on the unarguable fact that GPs are taking the NHS for a ride.