danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
For what?
"New World Order" announced on Independent, Guardian and Daily Mail front pages.
- Thread starter taffboy gwyrdd
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
yEP
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I don't believe you!
Hey, where's that fly gone? The one that was on my screen?
Mmm. Crunchy.
Hey, where's that fly gone? The one that was on my screen?
Mmm. Crunchy.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Well, hyperbole aside, I agree that there are real concerns about what has been a steady erosion of (for want of a better phrase) civil liberties.
But why is that a pertinent point to make in reply to BK's post mocking the conspiracy take on the phrase "New World Order"?
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
This, pretty much. Although the "new" is very slight, and the degree of change would be better understood by Taff if he read the David Harvey book Blag recommended.
In short, this isn't Bilderberg conspiracy, it's ruling class manoeuvring.
Firstly, I havent located the Harvey book, but on the suggestions I have listened to a couple of his Marx lectures on the net and he is certainly a good scholar in that area. I havent heard him say anything directly on NWO theory though, if others could link I would be interested to find out what his stance is.
Yes it is ruling class manouevuring. I dont think I've mentioned BBerg in this thread but it is the same ruling class that is calling this the New World Order, not conspiracists.
ETA: The debate is over, even if it should have been some time ago: the elite are consolidating assets, structuring a new phase of capitalism with no mandate, clamping down on civil liberties and calling themselves the NWO. The only debate now is the nature of NWO, that would be a long one. But their proud existence is a fact we should deal with.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
gay thread is hetro base belongs to lolcat foilaloonconspiranoid bollocks .... a fucking gain... yawn...
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I was using it as a descriptor, if you see what I mean.
Harvey's book on Neoliberalism (a particular field of his) is about ruling class manoeuvring, rather than "NWO". I just happen to agree with Blag that this is a far more instructive way of describing class structures. It is an approach that analyses using economics and geopolitics, and without dramatic voice-overs or Twilight Zone music.
bhamgeezer
Dogs bark
I think many of the conspiracy theorists have some fair points, but they ruin it with their conclusions and speculation which are almost always oversimplified and conceal some kind of hidden agenda.
The new world order is a catchy phrase refering to the inevitable centralisation of economic and political power that will undoubtably occur in the future. Many conspiracy theorists seem to have been completely obvious to the process of globalisation of the past 30 years and suddenly feel like their identity is being threatened. I mean are unstable national currencies and protectionist policies something worth maintaining? Is international law that can protect individuals anywhere in the world a bad thing?
Rather than asking valid questions about the federal reserve, central banks, the fractional reserve banking system, the economy in general, political corruption and religious influence and then dealing with these issues isolated from other problems. They highlight issues then completely invalidate their own argument by blaming some single group of people for practically all the issues, favorites being Secret organisations, ethnic minorities, Zionists, Organised Religion or the nameless "Global Elite".
Recently I have been sampling conspiracy theories for lols and I have got to say it is amazing how many people think the rapture is coming soon
Hell some people even think Obama is the antichrist!
The new world order is a catchy phrase refering to the inevitable centralisation of economic and political power that will undoubtably occur in the future. Many conspiracy theorists seem to have been completely obvious to the process of globalisation of the past 30 years and suddenly feel like their identity is being threatened. I mean are unstable national currencies and protectionist policies something worth maintaining? Is international law that can protect individuals anywhere in the world a bad thing?
Rather than asking valid questions about the federal reserve, central banks, the fractional reserve banking system, the economy in general, political corruption and religious influence and then dealing with these issues isolated from other problems. They highlight issues then completely invalidate their own argument by blaming some single group of people for practically all the issues, favorites being Secret organisations, ethnic minorities, Zionists, Organised Religion or the nameless "Global Elite".
Recently I have been sampling conspiracy theories for lols and I have got to say it is amazing how many people think the rapture is coming soon
Hell some people even think Obama is the antichrist!
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Available from Amazon or most major bookstores. I got my copy from Foyles on the Charing Cross Rd, London.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I've uploaded a pdf reading copy here
I have to say that my experience is that those on the loonier end of the specturm are very resitant to anything that may challenge their pre-existing world view (as Harvey will) and either just ignore serious works like this, or twist them into supporting their crazy ideas. There's some serious work being done by people like William Robinson on transnational elites and the concentration and centralisation of capital, but i'm really reluctant to bring it to the attention of some people on here for fear of what they'll do with it.
I have to say that my experience is that those on the loonier end of the specturm are very resitant to anything that may challenge their pre-existing world view (as Harvey will) and either just ignore serious works like this, or twist them into supporting their crazy ideas. There's some serious work being done by people like William Robinson on transnational elites and the concentration and centralisation of capital, but i'm really reluctant to bring it to the attention of some people on here for fear of what they'll do with it.
dennisr
the acceptable face
and you would think the alleged 'conspirators' would keep quiet about their worldwide conspiracy rather than trumpeting about it all over via their media mouthpieces
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
If i was in on it i'd use the term as often as i could - useful to have loons discrediting serious research with their rantings.
dennisr
the acceptable face
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
They own all the companies that make CCTV, HDDs, and fibre optic cable AND the companies that write the dbase software to store it all on.
Prince Rhyus
Spokesman of King Antonio
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
ButchersApron
Thanks for the Harvey link. I will read with interest and get back to you.
ETA: I will get back 2 you before reading all 130 pages tho
Thanks for the Harvey link. I will read with interest and get back to you.
ETA: I will get back 2 you before reading all 130 pages tho
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
All this points out is that a group pupporting to be anti NWO is in fact lead by the RNC who will have NWO links a plenty.
That will come as zero suprise to many an anti NWO campaigner - just classic co-option / infiltration etc.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Like the Webster Tarpley chap
Tarpley is eccentric, can be wrong on things and can be right on things. Not unlike a host of commentators from all over the spectrum.
One thing he is right on is that Obama needs to be attacked from the left,rather than play into the hands of muppets on the right who are now dressing themselves up in faux patriotism after years of shitting all over the constitution and destroying the name of the US.
Unless he made some statement rejecting his past political links and saying he realised he was wrong then I find it worrying that people who (from wiki):
Are using folks like Alex Jones to bolster their profile, including the Obama movie and are riding on the back of the recent "new world order" articles mentioned in the press.
Are using folks like Alex Jones to bolster their profile, including the Obama movie and are riding on the back of the recent "new world order" articles mentioned in the press.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Except I checked out the site and it doesnt appear to be anti-NWO in particular, its anti-obama, pro constitution, guns, life, all the usual stuff, but NWO and World Government fear is not the particular brand of that site.
And thats always the point to me, time and time again we find the same collection of political beliefs attached to those libertarians, fed haters, world government fearers and NWO lizard busters. Their mindset is right-wing, and so naturally sure the mainstream Republican party make use of them as part of their base when convenient. And in return this rabid rightwing base will end up being displeased with Republican governments as well, for not going far enough to the right, not being godfearing enough, not being fiscal conservatives or actually practicing small government, isolationalism and social conservatism.
Neoliberalism, corporatism, globalisation and all that stuff caused problems on the right, it mangled and made impotent some of their core beliefs, just as much as it neutered the left. Ideologies, regimes & people manage the world we have inherited, and the choices they make, for a wide variety of reasons far beyond any simple NWO narrative, do not sit well with vast numbers of people around the globe. There is a struggle with a lot of passion and need, but not much power, and with fractured direction, because about the only thing the masses agree on is that we dont like the way things are now.
So one thing we should have in abundance in our age is wide choice about which group or movement to support. So please forgive me for tiring of hearing so much about what the right-wingers. It does not impress me that they point fingers at powerful people and say oh look they are powerful. I dont like their language or their beliefs and agenda. But there are probably people who like their use of language, its all nice and dramatic, got some punch, its got the makings of a Hollywood blockbuster action film all over it. They know how to march in a direction and whip up support. Fear and action, none of that dull stuff about helping people and being kind and compromising and coming to terms with the 21st century and America not being able to get its own way all the time on the international stage.
elbows
Well-Known Member
And now I will ramble a little about what's at stake.
Lets say the NWO is actually a set of slightly varying economic systems (including who owns what & where) and ideological beliefs, along with the various global power balances.
In short, the ways things are done, and what currently dominates.
Now along with all the bad stuff, there is clearly some good. In some countries there are a variety of decent human rights. Liberals & institutions keep these concepts alive, especially if these rights are up against a lot of prejudice in the wider population.
If Im quite interested in preserving those rights, then I would be naive to not consider the implications of the neoliberal regime being brought to its knees. And Id be bonkers to support a movement of right-wingers whose designs on the future are fundamentally incompatible with mine.
The enemy of my enemy is not my friend by default.
Also up for discussion is why the lefts use of labels and their version of the narrative is less appealing to some, even if the underlying beliefs may be more in tune.
Lets say the NWO is actually a set of slightly varying economic systems (including who owns what & where) and ideological beliefs, along with the various global power balances.
In short, the ways things are done, and what currently dominates.
Now along with all the bad stuff, there is clearly some good. In some countries there are a variety of decent human rights. Liberals & institutions keep these concepts alive, especially if these rights are up against a lot of prejudice in the wider population.
If Im quite interested in preserving those rights, then I would be naive to not consider the implications of the neoliberal regime being brought to its knees. And Id be bonkers to support a movement of right-wingers whose designs on the future are fundamentally incompatible with mine.
The enemy of my enemy is not my friend by default.
Also up for discussion is why the lefts use of labels and their version of the narrative is less appealing to some, even if the underlying beliefs may be more in tune.
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