Discussion in 'London and the South East' started by editor, May 10, 2018.
What do we think, urban?
More here: New Tunnel Under The Thames Given The Go-Ahead
Anything that makes private car use easier in a city, in this day and age, is madness.
How good to have a tunnel which will ease gridlock round the Blackwall tunnel and speed traffic through uncluttered Greenwich
Not sure they've thought this one through
The new tunnel will be tolled, as will the old. Broadly the intention is that that will see off any increase in traffic due to 'induced demand'
We shall see.
Essentially the plan is to build the tunnel and then put a toll on it to deter some users so that is used to half of its capacity. This they hope will avoid the induced traffic effect. The bad effects (in terms of congestion and air pollution) of any induced traffic will be at their worst when the motorway grade roads join local residential streets which are already close to their full capacity.
At the moment the tolls are set to prevent this and there are some safeguards that could result in the tweaking of the toll levels should the traffic modelling prove wrong. But after about five years these safeguards expire and the temptation will always be there for a Mayor of London to strike a popularist pose by promising to lower or abolish the tolls.
There are also a whole series of exemptions to the tolls and nobody is really sure what the effect of these will be. One of these, I believe, (haven't had a chance to read the full 1,000 page decision) will be an exemption for electric vehicles. There might also be local discounts for low-income residents of the three host boroughs (Newham, Tower Hamlets and Greenwich). I would also be interested to see how motorbikes and mopeds will be treated.
Does anyone know how much the tolls will be set at? Has that been decided yet?
£4 for a car, £8.50 for a lorry. See Page 77, Appendix A for charges used in the Assessed Case modelling. Will be applied to the Blackwall Tunnel as well. They are going to run the modelling again, I believe, before setting the actual charges.
https://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/TR010021/TR010021-000232-7.5 Charging Statement.pdf
The tolls will do fuck all. It's London, people are used to paying daft amounts of money for everything.
But we already have the wildly successful and not at all white elephanty cable car there.
I'd have thought replacing the Woolwhich ferry with a bridge or tunnel would have a higher priority. The banks of the river East of Greenwich are ridiculously divided.
It does look like this tunnel will be much better for buses than Blackwall, mind you. Dedicated lane and tall enough for double deckers.
Probably. I imagine the private companies who will finance and toll it expect a quicker return on their investment.
There are further crossings proposed at Gallions Reach and Belvedere (tunnel and bridge options under consideration)
The consultation report heavily stresses the business/service traffic that would be carried by these crossings, as well as buses/peds/cycles. It's a fair point. Any business in these areas that needs to transport goods/tradespeople is effectively cut off from half the city without a time-consuming detour.
Blackwall tunnel is the biggest permanent traffic jam in London hands down. At rush hour you can add nearly an hour to queue going north to south, and that's when there hasn't been an accident. Something needs to happen....
Agree with crispy though, that something should be down river.... I'd expect Bexley to change a lot because of cross rail...it really is the most ignored part of London....
Oh and as for new PT crossings of the Eastern river, the Barking Riverside extension of the Overground will probably end up going under the river at some point. Thamesmead would finally get a station. At least a decade away mind.
It will certainly put me off. I use Blackwall at least twice a year
Seriously, I'm going to have to have a think because I do have a friend in Peckham who I visit a couple of times a year. I usually go through town inbound and Blackwall Tunnel homebound. Annoyingly I won't be able to do either because my car doesn't meet ULEZ standards from next year, and Blackwall will be tolled.
I don't have any objections to the ULEZ but the Blackwall toll as well will add £8 to the cost of a trip.
I thought they were going to do a bridge
What that part of the world really needs is somewhere for cyclists to cross. I don't think I'd use a tunnel on a bicycle even if they put in a bike lane.
Can you take bikes on the cable car?
They're talking about a bike shuttle bus. Sounds crazy but might work?
You can take a bike on the cable car at any time.
There's also the tfl proposal for a Rotherhithe-Canary Wharf ped/cycle bridge: Rotherhithe-Canary Wharf crossing
That's probably what I was thinking of.
A bike shuttle bus sounds stupid and crap.
I disagree, actually. I think it could work. At least worth a try.
It sounds like something that technically works as in, yeah, you can get from one side of the tunnel to the other with your bicycle, but in practice would not be worth the hassle.
There are two foot tunnels that are used by cyclists. Technically you should push it through but no-one else does. Only problem is when the lifts are down.
I have been on the cable car twice - it's like queuing for a tourist attraction. I can't see it's a decent solution for commuting on a bike
It's been tried before...
IAN'S BUS STOP: Thames Trader
The reprioritising of the Rotherhithe Canary Wharf ped/cycle bridge was one of the good things that came out of the discussions around the tunnel. It was pointed out that the Emirates Cable Car was not a credible option for cyclists and would be expensive compared to the tunnel toll for cars so TfL would effectively be disincentivising cycling in its East London Thames crossings package unless it hurried up and built the new bridge.
Fair point, but Blackwall is a lot more urban than Dartford.
Oh, I wasn't suggesting that just because the Dartford service didn't work, a Blackwall one wouldn't. It was more a matter of historical curiosity.
You queued to get on the cable car? They only have about 10 people a day on it
Is it anything other than a tourist attraction?
I seem to remember a short queue when we went on it, but that was on a weekend. Like any tourist attraction I guess it has its peak times.
They need more cars in that model.
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