New Team Leader's Shitty Behaviour
- Thread starter miss_b
- Start date
bmd
Island in the stream.
OK so opinion seems to be divided between contacting HR and confronting him about it. TBH I don't feel hugely comfortable talking to him about it and an email seems a bit of a cop-out to me. Plus I worry about him forwarding it to management and maybe using it against me somehow.
From what I can tell he's the sort of person that wouldn't take it seriously if I did confront it and I don't think making a comment in front of other staff is very professional. If I go straight to HR, because I'm not sure I can deal with this on my own (and I don't see my Line Managers being any help they're fucking useless) will this stand against me - should I have shown that I tried to deal with it myself?
I guess from now on I keep recording incidents of behaviour, ignore his comments and contact HR. Bit scared actually, I worry all this will end up being blamed on me
If the incident is how you say it is then I can't see what you've done wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if you're blamed somehow by this twunt though. Unfortunately there is no easy way to deal with this, it will cause you some upset and hassle at work.
I don't think that any workplace can expect its members of staff to deal with these kinds of situations and if you're unsure why not go to HR and ask what their policy is on a hypothetical situation such as...
OK so opinion seems to be divided between contacting HR and confronting him about it. TBH I don't feel hugely comfortable talking to him about it and an email seems a bit of a cop-out to me. Plus I worry about him forwarding it to management and maybe using it against me somehow.
From what I can tell he's the sort of person that wouldn't take it seriously if I did confront it and I don't think making a comment in front of other staff is very professional. If I go straight to HR, because I'm not sure I can deal with this on my own (and I don't see my Line Managers being any help they're fucking useless) will this stand against me - should I have shown that I tried to deal with it myself?
I guess from now on I keep recording incidents of behaviour, ignore his comments and contact HR. Bit scared actually, I worry all this will end up being blamed on me
Try not to feel scared, my love. This is what bullies thrive on. Is he making any offensive jokes to the males in there? In other words, is he a twat towards everyone, or he is a complete misogynist who enjoys this kind of stuff. If so, even more important you keep records, refrain from engaging with him on his puerile level and try to keep calm. Just keep thinking, 'this is his problem' and don't take it on board.
Are your colleagues supportive? What do they think of him?
Chin up!
Yes I agree with you - what I meant was more from the point of veiw of what is actually happening as regards a harrasser's rationale as opposed to how it would appear from the legal point of veiw when they rationalise it.
You're right - you can't make assumptions about the person's intentions. You have to let them know that it's offensive first of all. Then if they continue with the behaviour after that, it's harrassment.
AnnaKarpik
Queen of all she surveys
Couldn't you approach HR for advice on how to tackle this, saying you don't want to make things official (yet) but don't know how best to proceed. Maybe you could take this approach with your line manager, too. This way you make it known that there is a problem, and that you want to work out a way of sorting it out with their help. The legal implications will haunt them without you needing to mention the words 'official complaint'.
Hi all 
Well he's been very well behaved today, actually being nice and only making one possilbly lecherous comment (he asked me where some folders where, I said I didn't know and didn't have them secreted about my person, he offered to look, I declined) but he may just be having a good day. My chosen plan of action is to keep noting down any dodgy comments and see what happens. My colleagues think he's a dick, I'm very close to 3 of them and we're a tight knit group so he may just be trying to divide and conquer us.
Either way I'm reserving judgement and collecting evidence where need be. My colleagues know what he's said to me and will keep an eye out for it too
Well he's been very well behaved today, actually being nice and only making one possilbly lecherous comment (he asked me where some folders where, I said I didn't know and didn't have them secreted about my person, he offered to look, I declined) but he may just be having a good day. My chosen plan of action is to keep noting down any dodgy comments and see what happens. My colleagues think he's a dick, I'm very close to 3 of them and we're a tight knit group so he may just be trying to divide and conquer us.
Either way I'm reserving judgement and collecting evidence where need be. My colleagues know what he's said to me and will keep an eye out for it too
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
i'd still mention it to hr now even if it's informally it's much harder to say something if he tries anything down the line. she wasn't pulling her weight kept coming on to me so i recipracted or other things which has been known to happen tell em informally say that you are of courseno certain and waiting until the dust settles but that it has sounded a little alarm bell in your head about his x y z behaviour.
and please i know it's you attempting to have an enjoyable work enviroment but don't make comments which he can then turn in to double entandres as this can lead him to say things like well it's always been that kind of work enviroment she's as bad as i am which course doesn't relate to the obivous difference between worker and boss in the power dynamic.
it's all about not setting yourself up for a fall.
and please i know it's you attempting to have an enjoyable work enviroment but don't make comments which he can then turn in to double entandres as this can lead him to say things like well it's always been that kind of work enviroment she's as bad as i am which course doesn't relate to the obivous difference between worker and boss in the power dynamic.
it's all about not setting yourself up for a fall.
Hi all
Well he's been very well behaved today, actually being nice and only making one possilbly lecherous comment (he asked me where some folders where, I said I didn't know and didn't have them secreted about my person, he offered to look, I declined)
where's the boundaries ?
put them in place immediately.
zenie
>^^<
Hi all
Well he's been very well behaved today, actually being nice and only making one possilbly lecherous comment (he asked me where some folders where, I said I didn't know and didn't have them secreted about my person, he offered to look, I declined) but he may just be having a good day. My chosen plan of action is to keep noting down any dodgy comments and see what happens. My colleagues think he's a dick, I'm very close to 3 of them and we're a tight knit group so he may just be trying to divide and conquer us.
Either way I'm reserving judgement and collecting evidence where need be. My colleagues know what he's said to me and will keep an eye out for it too
I think you need to keep comments like 'secreted on my person' to a minimum because if it comes up later he may say in his defence that you join in and it was just banter. Do you get what I mean?
Also, I'd like to ask if there's anyone on your team that he behaves like this toward or is it just you?
If I were you I'd try and keep your relationship strictly proffesional, (i.e not pally) you do what's asked of you by him, that's your job. His is to manage you, not harass you.
But, I'd still be going to HR and having a word, if you're not the only one I wouldn't be surprised if he gets moved teams, his behaviours totally unacceptable.
Best of luck and do let us know how you get on.
Thanks again all. I'm actually not in centre for the next 2 days as I'm on a training course and he's not in Friday so I'm free of him for the week.
My gut is saying keep noting down evidence and make sure boundaries are in place. The trouble is I'm a very friendly person and I can't help but be jokey with people. I'm watching what I say around him from now on - avoiding any possible innuendoes or banter. As for how he behaves around others, he makes sarky comments to everyone but the more lecherous end of things seem to be reserved for me, at least my female colleague said he hasn't done the same to her apart from the wandering eyes.
I walked into work today and both he and the slightly lecherous admin guy were both stood in the office doorway and both of them, simultaneously looked me up and down in tandem. It was unpleasant and just made me feel so self conscious, and my female colleague said my team leader had a look again as he walked away (my back was turned). But what do you say? "Excuse me guys can you not look at me like I'm a slab of meat I'm a human being?"
Also I was standing in the doorway of my colleague's office and in order to get me to move so he could come in he poked me in the waist. It took me by surprise, whereas if I spot those sort of moves towards my personal space I can avoid them.
I feel like if I go to HR and start a shit storm it's all going to get nasty, when maybe just putting my foot down with him is a better tactic? But then how do I do that?
My gut is saying keep noting down evidence and make sure boundaries are in place. The trouble is I'm a very friendly person and I can't help but be jokey with people. I'm watching what I say around him from now on - avoiding any possible innuendoes or banter. As for how he behaves around others, he makes sarky comments to everyone but the more lecherous end of things seem to be reserved for me, at least my female colleague said he hasn't done the same to her apart from the wandering eyes.
I walked into work today and both he and the slightly lecherous admin guy were both stood in the office doorway and both of them, simultaneously looked me up and down in tandem. It was unpleasant and just made me feel so self conscious, and my female colleague said my team leader had a look again as he walked away (my back was turned). But what do you say? "Excuse me guys can you not look at me like I'm a slab of meat I'm a human being?"
Also I was standing in the doorway of my colleague's office and in order to get me to move so he could come in he poked me in the waist. It took me by surprise, whereas if I spot those sort of moves towards my personal space I can avoid them.
I feel like if I go to HR and start a shit storm it's all going to get nasty, when maybe just putting my foot down with him is a better tactic? But then how do I do that?
Good idea. I can call using 141 and explain I want some anonymous advice, hopefully they'd be open to that.
Also I was standing in the doorway of my colleague's office and in order to get me to move so he could come in he poked me in the waist. It took me by surprise, whereas if I spot those sort of moves towards my personal space I can avoid them.
I feel like if I go to HR and start a shit storm it's all going to get nasty, when maybe just putting my foot down with him is a better tactic? But then how do I do that?
I guess you could say something like 'when you say X, it makes me feel uncomfortable / I find it offensive & insulting & sexually harassing'. To his reply say 'so if you choose to continue making these remarks, I will consider it sexual harassment because I have told you it's offensive/insulting to me'.
To the looks you could say 'I don't appreciate you looking at me like that; it's degrading, please don't do this again'.
If you are touched say very clearly & strongly 'Don't touch me ! Do not do that again'. any bluffing from them afterwards just continue very clearly with 'stop doing that now'. Have your voice slightly raised - they hate attention being drawn to them.
In all these interactions don't get into a debate about it - be clear about what you are saying, keep it simple & just repeat it over & over again if necessary. This 'stuck record technique' is very good if you are feeling emotional & for dealing with people in authority who are abusing their posiiton like this.
It would be good if you could do this in front of a supportive witness, especially if they agree to witness it beforehand.
Or you can covertly record with a dictaphone if you are being harassed/bullied at work. You will then cover yourself for any counter accusations that you were aggressive.
when you say these things, keep calm,remember that you are assserting your right to betreated with dignity & that you are taking control of the situation. Expect to be met with ridicule. But I'm sure you know this, all women do, that's why it's so awful for us to challenge, but that's what abusive people like this rely on - that you will be too embarrassed to say anything. I think that the thought of challenging it will be worse than actually doing it - you will feel better for it. Maybe practice what you are going to say at home.
I really think if you have told these people this once, warned them that if they continue that you consider it harrassing, & it continues, then after that you need to make a complaint. It's not going to get better by itself.
Bon Courage
Make sure you go to the Union & tell them about it & get a hold of the organisation's policy re sexual harassment.
Don't forget - you do not need these people's approval, the important thing is to stop the harassment.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
go to HR seriously the longer you leave it between the actions setting an preciedent of perceived acceptance of his behaviour.
clearly you don't feel able to confront him directly about this and you have the right to work harrassed free.
clearly you don't feel able to confront him directly about this and you have the right to work harrassed free.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
There are a number of trades unionists and officials on these boards and they may be able to give you informal advice from previous experience.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
which some of us have done already donna if you'd bothered to read the thread before stating the obvious...
hence the call to go to the HR department. and how to approach it.
Termite Man
zombie flesh eater
I really don't understand what everyones problem with actually talking to this bully is , when I had problems with my boss telling me I looked disgusting and that I had to wear my false teeth to work ( even though I found them uncomfortable ) I had a chat with them explained my position and they were fine with it . I can symapthise that this a new person so miss_b isn't sure what reaction she will get but keeping a diary won't help stop anything unless you take things to HR but a quick chat could work wonders .
I don't want to put miss_b down for not talking to this bloke if she feels uncomfortable but some of the comments aimed at me on this thread have been very dismissive of what could be a simple solution .
Bajie
Zhu Bajie
We had a person like this where I work, used to creep out all the female workers really badly to the point where they could not talk to him (which made their job more difficult). He was spoken to about it by the manager, but his nature was that he was a creep, he could not change his nature and sometimes that is the problem. Luckily he was on a fixed term contract.
Not much to add as lots of good advise already.
Not much to add as lots of good advise already.
Also if you don't have this harassment logged with HR first, then when he becomes aware that he might need to disguise his behaviour by not being so overt, he may instead start pulling you up about your 'performance' or some other crap, or shit stir & cause friction between you & a colleague & engineer problems for you that way, e.g a complaint against you.
Sounds crazy but these people have lots of tricks up their sleeve.
If you then respond by saying 'yes but I've been harrassed' then that can be seen as just being an excuse following concerns being raised about your work.
Don't think that just because he praises your work now that he won't slag it off in the future.
re not confronting him yourself: my personal opinion is that it is very good to tell the person harrassing you that you don't like their behaviour & to tell them to stop, it is empowering & the fear of doing it is nowhere near as bad as the actual doing it, especially if you rehearse what you are going to say, remain assertive & calm.
I do think also that like it or not, in the future something could be made of the fact that you did not tell him clearly yourself don't like what he is doing.
But unfortunately you have to expect that when you pull him up, that is likely to lead to more of the same & I think it would be a good idea to follow this up with a swift complaint to HR (in writing) if he reacts badly, as soon as possible before he starts kicking your head in about work-related duties etc.
Any other reaction than an acknowledgement he has behaved badly, apology & an undertaking not to continue is not good enough. Any attempt to deflect it back on you is a very bad sign indeed.
and I really don't think you should do this without a reliable witness present or a dictaphone recording him.
Try to avoid being alone with him, unless you are able to covertly record him - he could say you were coming on to him or he could harass you some more.
the manager's response is appalling (what a surprise
)It's a shame we're not in a climate where the women could all decide that they could not continue coming into work until the risk to their Health & Safety was removed, & told the organisation that they would not be able to come into work until he was. (Well they'd probably have to offer to come to work but in a part of the workplace where he could not have direct contact with them & it would help if they turned up at HR every morning offering to work but not with him).
Then when he gets moved to a different part of the organisation, (the most likely 'solution') for the women there to do the same thing as a known harrasser has been put to work with them, thereby constituting a risk to their Health & Safety.
Men could walk out in solidarity
Under H&S law, risk assessments are meant to be carried out for known risks.
I suppose in theory targets of harassment could do this but what Union would support a show of solidarity & people power like that - one that would be most likely to force HR to take action on the harasser ?
OK so opinion seems to be divided between contacting HR and confronting him about it. TBH I don't feel hugely comfortable talking to him about it and an email seems a bit of a cop-out to me. Plus I worry about him forwarding it to management and maybe using it against me somehow.
From what I can tell he's the sort of person that wouldn't take it seriously if I did confront it and I don't think making a comment in front of other staff is very professional. If I go straight to HR, because I'm not sure I can deal with this on my own (and I don't see my Line Managers being any help they're fucking useless) will this stand against me - should I have shown that I tried to deal with it myself?
I guess from now on I keep recording incidents of behaviour, ignore his comments and contact HR. Bit scared actually, I worry all this will end up being blamed on me
Hey miss B if your mobile phone has a record setting on it then maybe you could record him and if he asks what your doing with your mobile phone make an excuse that you are ringing some client or looking for there number or somthing- but only consider this approach after you have confronted him if it keeps on then you will have to confront him about his behavior - evidence is always handy and a recorded record might come in handy with your own wriiten record lo you should keep that as well . use his overconfidence against him. Good luck anyway
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