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New routemaster

Discussion in 'transport' started by ska invita, May 17, 2010.

  1. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    If they let people get in at any door and have a "voluntary" oyster swipe system like the bendy buses.

    Also I wouldn't be surprised, if they have an enter at the front system when there's no conductor, if they have the rear doors permanently closed because it's probably too much to expect the driver to keep an eye on two sets of doors for people sneaking on.
  2. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    In which case that would be flawed operation rather than flawed design.

    It could be argued that I'm splitting hairs, but I do think that Bendy buses - designed for use on modern Bouvardes - are not the optimum design for a city with roads that stem from a medieval layout.

    (And as for dwell times, if they're measured solely on passengers/minute, that fails to account for the reduced numbers of passengers per official stop on an open platform bus).
  3. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Well...either you design a bus to work well in the intended mode of operation, or you operate a bus according to what was intended in the design.

    It just feels that in this case there is a messiness and inefficiency created by the need to cater for two different methods of operation.
  4. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Perhaps I'm being overly hopeful that it would simply run (self swipe) like a Bendy bus all the time, i.e. one mode of operation, with a door that can stay open during peak.

    But even if it is two modes, what are the gains and losses, and is it a net win? I'd argue that it's the peak that is the focus, that puts the most demands on a design, road congestion etc.

    The bendy has some advantages in peak (dwell time possibly), some things it's even (passengers vs. congestion), some things it's terrible (comfort).

    There's the possibility that this new design, compromised though it may be, will getter a better balance for peak operation.
  5. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    I like the bendys and the nu-routemasters - why can't we just keep both??
  6. Chz

    Chz Stark Raving Sane

    That argument has always been bollocks. London is hardly the only European city with a mess of narrow, twisted roads and articulated buses seem to work quite well in other cities with the same issue.

    I'd agree that both sorts of bus would be nice.
  7. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    What type of roads were they designed for?
  8. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Thing is, the only advantage I can see the routemaster having over the bendy buses is the open platform - which is good - but if it's only going to be available some of the time, is it really worth all the extra expense (and decrease in capacity)? I guess it depends what proportion of time it'll be available during, and there doesn't seem to be any clear indication on this yet.

    Why do you find the bendy buses lacking in comfort by the way?
  9. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    The fewer seats I would imagine. Sitting = more comfortable than standing.

    I do like standing on the twisty-turny bit in the middle though :cool:
  10. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    They'll have more seats per metre.
  11. IMR

    IMR well-meaning tosser

    It's good how you can get on and off the bendy bus through any one of three different doors. Hardly anyone queues at bus stops now, so three doors is better than the usual competitive scramble to get in a single door.
  12. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Well, as long as Boris is giving us two routemasters for every bendy bus...
  13. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    From my experience I wouldn't particularly expect to be more likely to have to stand in a bendy bus than a regular one. And standing ina regular bus is a pain because your jammed in the gangway getting in the way of everyone whereas on the bendy buses you can loiter in the twisty turny bit without people pushing past all the time.
  14. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    Really? Do you commute during the rush hour? You're pretty unlikely to get a seat unless you board at the beginning of the route.
  15. Plus if you stand next to the Oyster reader you don't need to swipe until you see an inspector getting on.
  16. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Well, when I do travel in the rush hour, it's normal to have do stand on regular buses.
  17. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    I regularly get a seat on double deckers during rush hour. Of course, I go upstairs, which around 75% of London's population appear not to be aware of.

    e2a: in fairness, it's just occurred to me that my most frequent experience with non-double deckers is the 521, which recently became a non bendy single decker, so reduced space all round. Point still stands about the doubles though, unusual not to get a seat.
  18. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    And if you sit at the front, you can pretend to be the driver. :cool:
  19. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Seats cost money, there's no escaping that.

    But with double deck designs, they needn't cost road space.
  20. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Did you work out standing spaces per m as well btw? :hmm:
  21. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Why would that be a positive measure?
  22. Why not have a double decker bendy bus?
  23. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Seats upstairs, three doors. Maybe the could have the rear door open during peak.

    Now that would be good. :)
  24. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    A rational voice of sanity.
  25. lopsidedbunny

    lopsidedbunny Well-Known Member

    I sat on one of these buses at the back and it was like sitting on a trailer with no springs. Never again!
  26. Chz

    Chz Stark Raving Sane

    Budapest, actually. Which has quite a mix of old, narrow streets and wide boulevards. Never stopped the buses from going down the narrow, twisty ones there.
  27. stuff_it

    stuff_it stirred the primordial soup

    You would be surprised where you can take a bus.

    Bet these new ones are automatics though :(

    I heard a rumour that the old routemasters, being stick shift, were kaining through clutches as a lot of the newer drivers had trained in automatics. No Idea if true or not.
  28. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Transverse as opposed to "in line". Austin Maxi as opposed to Ford Cortina.
  29. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    The design of bicycles has never stopped them being ridden on pavements. That doesn't make them suitable for it.
  30. cybertect

    cybertect It's grim up north (London)

    LT have experimented with two staircases in the past


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