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New routemaster

Discussion in 'transport' started by ska invita, May 17, 2010.

  1. dlx1

    dlx1 Sitting by phone waiting for a call

    skyscraper101 photo

    What the white bar thing at top of Bus. Round edges cut down on drag, aerodynamic
  2. For when the bus hits overhanging trees?
  3. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Maybe marginally, at the times when both entrance/exits are open (and anyway, will people be able to board at the front when it's running with a conductor?). But I'm guessing the extra staircase is at the expense of 5-10 seats, and less seats means more buses per route and more buses per route means more congestion.

    The fact that there are two staircases just illustrates how stupid the whole premise of the design is - trying to cram two conflicting systems of operation into the one vehicle. The bus hasn't been designed to work well for passengers - it's been designed to allow Boris to follow through on his ill-thought-through election pledge to bring back the routemaster which wasn't anything to do with improving London's transport, but all to do with gaining a few votes via a populist policy.
  4. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    If it's worth doing just for the sake of it, then do it properly! Don't build a messy compromise that won't even operate like a routemaster most of the time and which will actually probably make things worse rather than better.

    We've already got routemasters running just for fun/for the tourists in central London anyway (and long may it continue).

    The true analogy with the Settle and Carlisle line would be to keep the line open but also insist that 50% of London-Scotland trains used it instead of the WCML and passengers can just put up with the extra hour or two it would add to their journey.

    (That's assuming we agree the S&C line is bad in terms of cost/value of course)
  5. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    The staircase is added on to the back of a standard bus frame, no seats are removed.
  6. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    Obviously, one thing missing from these photos is the advertising on the side which they'll inevitably have to carry. I hope that they get proper video advertising on the side when they do launch to make them look all futuristic and stuff.
    NoXion and muscovyduck like this.
  7. Well I still like them and as I rarely take a bus to go anywhere, don't give a shit if they work or not so there :p
  8. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Do you mean the bus is longer overall than a regular bus? If that's the case, then you could make it longer but fill the extra space with seats instead - effectively you are sacrificing seating space either way.
  9. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    Yep, it's essentially a Wright Gemini 2 with an extra 2 meters or so of bodywork.
  10. sir.clip

    sir.clip Well-Known Member

    It seems longer than your usual bus....

    I hope it has more space for pushchairs. Everytime i get the bus from Brixton theres about 20 Mums with pushchairs fully loaded with shopping & Kiddie kit filling up the stair lobby. I also hope theres more granny seats near the front so when the Driver puts his foot down & turbos the old folk dont get thrown to the back of the bus & breaking their hips as they fall out the back, (or they have done something with the tranmission so its a slow starter).
  11. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    I'm wondering if this means it'll actually have a worse turning circle than a regular bus... one of the features if I recall correctly of the old routemaster was that it had a smaller turning circle making it manueverable in tight London city streets
  12. Onket

    Onket Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]


    Pretty looking expensive waste of money.
  13. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    It looks cooler than a Gemini 2 imo, but its going to be a waste of time unless they have the back open most of the time.

    Surely the whole point of bringing back the routemaster design was to allow people to get on and off quickly out of the back again. This ain't happening at the moment so it takes ages to get everyone off the bus and a massive queue of people waiting to get on. Having a large open back is surely the quickest way to get quick transitions of people on and off - without this, you may as well have more Gemini 2s.
  14. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    That's one perspective.

    Another is simply that it's a bus with an extra staircase and an extra door.

    Which means faster unload at major stops.
  15. Sunray

    Sunray Its sunny somewhere.

    The original Routemasters were total fail for about 30 years of their life. They were cold, uncomfortable, the upstairs too low, the seats too close together and too small for anyone that was born >1965, if you fell down the stairs you could fall onto the road when it was moving, the platforms caused something like 11 accidents per day and essentially showed how crap we are at investing in transport in London being 60 years since they were put into service.

    Oh they were iconic, by virtue of not being replace 30 years after they should have.

    I don't see anything in that list that is worth emulating?

    The bendy buses are IMO still better than double deckers. I cycle everywhere and they pose no issue for me. They also hold nearly twice as many people as a double decker and are therefore much more efficient than a double decker.
  16. mincepie

    mincepie Everday lurker!

    Says it all really!! You might as well just take the bendy, turn the engine round a put another door at the rear, like in the rest of Europe. Then people could get on and off even quicker.
    I don't get this open door stuff. You can't have open doors and A/C = fail.

    Not that the door will be open, except at stops. So back to the busses in Europe with the engine turned round to allow for another door. But much more expensive!

  17. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    where on earth is the engine in that citaro? "turning the engine round" seems to have involved rotating it through a 4th dimension or something :)
  18. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Not a fan of bendy buses myself.

    I had to use the 453 for about a year. Standing. In the morning rush hour, *always* standing.

    Am very glad I'm now on a route with double deckers
  19. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Maybe they just got rid of the last few seats ;)
  20. cybertect

    cybertect It's grim up north (London)

    I was born in 1967 and I'm not that lardy that I can't fit on a Routemaster seat. I did so just last week on a 15 :confused:

    As a promiscuous bus user over the last 40 odd years, I've never fallen down the stairs on one either (though I've come closer to doing that on some modern double deckers that accelerate and brake much more sharply than a Routemaster).
  21. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    I think it's fair to say they are a little more 'compact', but that isn't fundamental to the open platform design.

    It would be interesting to count up passengers per metre of bus. Especially if the fit outs were like for like in terms of %ge of seats. I suspect the numbers for Bendy buses (vs. various other double deck types) wouldn't look so attractive if they were measured on that basis.
  22. Giles

    Giles Well-Known Member

    Just because some people are too fat for the seats and unable to walk up and down some stairs / step off a platform without hurting themselves is no reason to stop using that vehicle.

    What about all the loads of people who didn't fall off, and enjoyed the convenience?

    There's got to be more of them.

  23. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    I think it was more for fitting two people on - it's possible, but it's a little... intimate :hmm:
  24. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    So, for good use of our limited road space. Quick back of envelope figures:

    Double Decker (Wright Gemini Hybrid Electric)
    10.3 Metres, 87 Passengers / 67 Seated.
    8.45 Passengers Per Metre
    6.31 Seated Per Metre

    Bendy (Citaro Diesel)
    18.0 Metres, 149 Passengers / 49 Seated
    8.28 Passengers Per Metre
    2.72 Seated Per Metre

    So the double decker nudges it on total capacity per metre, but when in comes to comfort combined with road use, the Bendy performs terribly.
  25. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    One has to wonder why bus designers haven't adopted such a perspective in the past though. I would contend that if it really was of genuine benefit, we would see buses like that already.
  26. TitanSound

    TitanSound Mr Beardy Drummer

    Bendy buses in theory are great for short journeys on relatively straight roads. They are not, in my experience, good for travelling halfway across London's twisty and narrow roads. And I have seen on more than one occasion bendy buses holding up traffic at a junction because of the extra length.
  27. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    The bendy is much quicker to fill and empty - when dwell times become a certain fraction of service interval, the buses start to bunch up and the timetable goes to hell. The big big benefit of bendies is their much shorter dwell time.
  28. mattie

    mattie missing in inaction

    Not having used buses in London since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, can I ask - does Oyster let you get on at any door and 'swipe in' or do you have to go past the driver and prove you have credit/that you've swiped?

    Once they got away with conductors that always seemed a bit of a bottle-neck, and one that other European cities generally don't suffer from as they seem generally to rely on an honesty/random inspection approach.

    The reason I ask is that his would naturally impact the design of a London bus.
  29. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    You have to go past the driver and swipe in on regular buses, but not on the bendy buses; you can get on at any door and make your decision whether you're going to pay for it or not.
  30. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    They have three doors, this new design has three doors.

    I'd expect the new design will have improved dwell times. Probably not matching bendy buses (the lack of seats will make things faster) but they might get alot closer than the conventional two door.

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