'New' Routemaster design released

[GarfieldLeChat]

All built before current safety legilslation and concerns and therefore hard & expensive to retrofit with the platfom door technology.

then why isn't it on all parts of the jublees extension? cos it's for style over safety issues is why...

 

[salem]

What about that dangerous "Gap" (as in mind it)

You could argue that the gap is an unavoidable risk where as the open platform is being touted as a benefit. The only real way it's a benefit is the hop on/hop off aspect.

 

[Gixxer1000]

You're arguing that moving vehicles are dangerous?

Yes very Safest place is under the duvet

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It looks more easily accessible for wheelchair users. Trying to access most London buses at the moment is decidedly hit-and-miss. First, the driver has to be alerted that a chair wishes to board; then, there’s the drama of will-the-ramp-go-down-and-stay-down – will I actually get on the bus; once on, there’s the battle of wills with the people occupying the designated wheelchair space – contrary to urban myth, staring out the window and ignoring requests to move does not render the bus passenger invisible (being disabled can in certain circumstances achieve this, however); then, for some inexplicable reason the bus designers have put in place a vertical yellow pole, about two thirds of the way along the length of the wheelchair space – causing the wheelie to attempt a really tight manoeuvre in a tight space, on a bus often overcrowded with really arsey people (arsey cos they’re also trying to get to their destination this side of death).

Anyway – the new Routemaster doesn’t appear to have any such needless obstruction. The door at the front also means the driver can see exactly where he is putting the ramp down; often as not, with buses with doors in the middle of the vehicle, the driver can not properly line the bus up to avoid street signage or furniture.

Best of all, for I was never very happy with scrapping the Routemaster on the grounds that it was inaccessible to me; the new design allows for the hopping on and off the vehicle; thus speeding up the journey.

added to all of this the regulations regarding bendy buses clearly state two push chairs or one wheel chair meaning that acutally they are no better than the old buses in terms of disabled capacity...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You could argue that the gap is an unavoidable risk where as the open platform is being touted as a benefit. The only real way it's a benefit is the hop on/hop off aspect.

which in a city where traffic is a problem would greatly increase the mobiltiy aspect and hasn't really be gotten around.

 

[Gixxer1000]

A motorbike is dangerous, the stats show that.

I have had a Ducati 916 in my living room for 2 yrs and it hasnt attacked me yet

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I still can't see why they can't change the law.

I mean if you cross the road on a red man then get hit by a car it's your fault and you'd have little recourse. change the law to if you jump off the bus whilst moving then you are commiting a minor offense which then isn't enforced except when some numpty does it and falls off... at which point they say sorry you broke the law tough tits...

 

[Gixxer1000]

Has anyone ever sued for falling off a Routemaster? No.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Has anyone ever sued for falling off a Routemaster? No.

this for some reason doesn't seem to worry people at present. it's the whole (wonders if he's going to sound like clarkson) health and safety issue, which requires a risk assesment and the probablity of the likelyhood of injury which might result in court action. of course if the law was changed to reflect that liablity and neigate it then of course the risk asssement would suddenly be different, in terms of liabilty at least...

but that's way to practical.

perhaps a petition to get these made might be in order or a campaign of some kind.

Brian if you are runnign for mayor and added this to your campaign i think it'd prolly get you in... boris is only using it as a something, anything to candour favour with the majority of londoners who'd not have him in due to him being well boris... on the other hand you are likely to be a strong cadiate why not consider it. (though no Livingstone type pronouncements of not going to put the fairs up oops did i put the fairs up type affair eh )

 

[Gixxer1000]

Id say the Routemasters were probably the safest passenger vehicle by far.
The drivers had no interface with passengers at all. They could concentrate on driving, the ergonomics of the driving position were good, allowing uninterupted vision to the left particularly important for cyclists.
Conductors prevented people from standing on the platform- helped the old/infirm and were a disincentive to bad behaviour by passengers.

 

[Crispy]

then why isn't it on all parts of the jublees extension? cos it's for style over safety issues is why...

1. The platforms aren't at the right height
2. Many of the platforms are curved, not straight. Signalling and track aren't as good as on the extension.
3. It would cost extra money

 

[teuchter]

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the platform barriers on the Jubilee line extension aren't so much to do with safety concerns as something to do with ventilation ....?

E2A:

The Jubilee Line extension project saw platform screen doors installed on its new stations. They were designed primarily to reduce the movement of air caused by the trains at they pass through the tunnels. They were also built as a barrier to prevent falling or jumping onto the tracks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_screen_doors

 

[teuchter]

Regarding the routemaster rear platforms... like most people I really miss these.

Now there's quite often the situation where the bus is caught in some kind of traffic jam, with the next bus stop in view but likely ten minutes away, and no traffic going anywhere. But the driver will still refuse to let anyone out cos it's against the rules.

The practical solution to this of course is to press the red emergency open button above the doors (unless you have a particularly belligerent driver who will try to close them again as soon as you have pressed the button) which actually is quite a good way of doing things because if something then happens to you, it is clearly not the driver or bus company's fault.

There is a semi-good reason for drivers not letting you out between stops which is that there could be a car (or more likely a bicycle) passing between the bus and the pavement which you then step out in front of.

The rear platform however avoided this problem as you could clearly see what was coming (and anything coming would have a much better chance of seeing you).

 

[Reno]

Well what about the trams in San Francisco? This is something that's always got me when people talk about falling off Routemasters.

How come the Merkins are suing away quite happily for falling off these?

They are really more a tourist attraction akin to a fair ground ride. Hardly anybody uses them for public transport as the route is rather useless for most people.

Anyway the new routemaster desing looks nice. Anything that spells death for bendy buses, I hate the fuckers.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

They are really more a tourist attraction akin to a fair ground ride. Hardly anybody uses them for public transport as the route is rather useless for most people.

Anyway the new routemaster desing looks nice. Anything that spells death for bendy buses, I hate the fuckers.

regardless they allow people to hang off the sides which would still be a case for falling off and suing... in the litigious USA you'd expect them to stomp on that instantly yet they don't...

 

[Reno]

regardless they allow people to hang off the sides which would still be a case for falling off and suing... in the litigious USA you'd expect them to stomp on that instantly yet they don't...

As it's mostly foreign tourist who use them it's they who fall off, so no suing anybody as the travel insurance covers it.

 

[kyser_soze]

Idiots deserve to get hurt?

As evidenced here:

Tigers maul man to death
Wednesday, December 19, 2007 A visitor to a zoo in India was mauled to death by tigers who ripped his hand off.

Two Royal Bengal tigers attacked the man after he crossed through fencing to get a better picture of the animals. He put his arm through the bars of their enclosure.

The incident happened at Guwahati Zoological Park in India. The tigers ripped off the man's left hand in the attack.

The man, a 50-year-old father-of-two, died after fighting with the tigers for half an hour.

His wife and children were with him at the zoo at the time of the attack.

A cruel irony that I use poking a tiger with a stick as an example...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

tbf he was fighting withthem for half and hour....

that's more than enough time to work out that he'll lose and run the fuck away...

 

[Giles]

I know what you mean, but my point is that there will always be stupid people. We can either say "well, you're stupid, tough luck - have fun hurting yourself" or "we'd better design things so that even stupid people can't fuck it up". Personally I prefer the latter, as less people end up hurt.

I don't.

Look, if you go on a bungee jump, or a parachute jump, or a climbing wall, or loads of fairground rides, one of the conditions of participating is that it is "at your own risk".

Surely all they have to do if they built these new buses would be to make that a condition of buying the ticket? If you did not like it, use the front door, or don't buy a ticket in the first place.

Who cares if a few stupid people DO fuck it up? Not me! It might be good for the gene pool if they fuck up really badly anyway, so it would be a blessing in disguise......

Giles..

 

[scifisam]

For me the question in law should be this: 'should a reasonable person be expected to know that their actions are dangerous?' If so, then they should take responsibility for any injury incurred.

There is no inevitability to the 'blame culture' - all that is needed is for someone to argue the case convincingly in court and for the courts to agree.

Children travel on public transport (often alone on their way to school), as do people with learning disabilities.

Idiots deserve to get hurt?
It doesn't have to be stupidity - people can slip too.

Yup. It could also be somebody else's stupidity that causes you to fall off that part of a Routemaster.

Which is sad, because I do love Routemasters.

 

[Sunray]

Before people get dewy eyed about those Routemaster death traps. Those platforms at the back allowing people to jump on/off, were dangerous.

I think Wiskey mentioned that loads of people were injured by them, something along the lines of 10 people per DAY, but I can't remember exactly what she said,

So that design is shit. Whats so wrong with the current buses that you need to redesign them? Wheelchair access is better but only on very full buses is that a problem.

 

[Giles]

The thing about Routemaster buses, old or proposed new, is that the open-platform feature is very convenient, although obviously involves a small risk.

The risk has not changed in 100 years of open-platform vehicles: so how come they were quite acceptable up until a few short years ago, well into the days of the "compensation culture"? And yet if someone plans one now, people automatically say that it is totally unsafe?

Giles..

 

[Giles]

Before people get dewy eyed about those Routemaster death traps. Those platforms at the back allowing people to jump on/off, were dangerous.

I think Wiskey mentioned that loads of people were injured by them, something along the lines of 10 people per DAY, but I can't remember exactly what she said,

So that design is shit. Whats so wrong with the current buses that you need to redesign them? Wheelchair access is better but only on very full buses is that a problem.

How can you say "that design is shit"? I used Routemasters for many years, and found it very useful to be able to hop on and off where I actually wanted to go, rather than at the next bus stop, particularly in busy traffic.

I never hurt myself, and neither did millions of other passengers. They obviously liked the convenience of the open platform, or they would not have used it.

If you did a survey of former Routemaster users, I am sure that the vast majority would have no problems with the open-platform design. I mean, if you didn't want to hop on or off between stops, you didn't have to!

Giles..

 

[Roadkill]

So that design is shit.

If it was so shit, how come it did forty years' reliable service and so many of its users were sorry to see it go?

 

[salem]

Before people get dewy eyed about those Routemaster death traps. Those platforms at the back allowing people to jump on/off, were dangerous.

I think Wiskey mentioned that loads of people were injured by them, something along the lines of 10 people per DAY, but I can't remember exactly what she said,

So that design is shit. Whats so wrong with the current buses that you need to redesign them? Wheelchair access is better but only on very full buses is that a problem.

So 10 people out of hundreds of thousands, most of which probably twisted ankles and grazes at worst.

Perhaps 10 people a day injure themselves on new buses while they are moving. In 20 years time will that be too many? Will we all have to sit down with seatbelt's on until the bus has stopped in the next phase of engineering all possible risk out of life?

 

[DG55]

1. The platforms aren't at the right height
2. Many of the platforms are curved, not straight. Signalling and track aren't as good as on the extension.
3. It would cost extra money

It doesn't matter that the platforms are curved. Westminster station is very much on a curve (I forget why), and it has the new fangled doors.

Back to the routemasters, that 10 accidents per day is fucking ridiculous. As if 10 people per day dont get injured on today's busses. People can just as easily fall off and graze their knee on a bus with automatic doors, or get trapped / smacked in the face - plenty of things to attempt compensation for.

 

[Giles]

Pretty soon, standing up on buses will be banned, then we all have to wear our seatbelts (this will be checked) before the bus can even move.

Then, we will have to strapped into special seats like overgrown toddlers, or passengers on what is sometimes unkindly called "the window licker bus".

Giles..

 

[scifisam]

Routemasters are more likely to lead to injury than ordinary buses, and the increased convenience factor isn't that big. Ergo, no more Routemasters or similar designs. It's not rocket science.

If it was so shit, how come it did forty years' reliable service and so many of its users were sorry to see it go?

I think we should all go back to cars that had to be cranked by hand to start. That design worked for years, so it must be the best.

 

[Giles]

Routemasters are more likely to lead to injury than ordinary buses, and the increased convenience factor isn't that big. Ergo, no more Routemasters or similar designs. It's not rocket science.



I think we should all go back to cars that had to be cranked by hand to start. That design worked for years, so it must be the best.

Your analogy is not right. Routemasters are only slightly more dangerous if you choose to get on or off while the vehicle is moving. You don't HAVE to do so, you can wait for the bus-stops same as you can with other buses. It is your choice.

A better comparison would be with cars that have a starter motor, but can still be cranked with a starting handle in case of need. Like my Landrover, or my old Morris 1000.

Giles..