New party 'for workers' launched

[socialistsuzy]

If it was really now launched - is its new name really the CNWP? Couldn't anyone have come up with anything slightly more catchy?

that their mistake, a party hasn't been launch and won't be on sunday. we have launched a campaign for a new workers party(CNWP) which will build momentum and support for a new workers party. so far we have 1200+ names on the declaration and have a target of 5000+ by the end of the year.

They should dress in Edwardian clothes to show that they are making the same mistake made 100 years ago.

that is the idea, someone got the period wrong but it went very well it was a press stunt for the conference and there were lots of press. we were on radio 5 live 3 time, radio 4, BBC 6oclock news i believe, the times were there, and a few more.

the probelm with this project- as welcome as it is, is that it doesnt seem to even try to engage with the swp- who are the largest part of the left in england and wales

What is a more significant failing is the SP’s insistence on totally dominating the event, even tho they are even smaller and more irrelevant than the SWP!

we have been in consistant discussions with respect/SWP and all other orgs. involved in the campaign. all the orgs that have joined the campaign have all been fully consulted on the conference too. all people/orgs that have signed the declaration may also vote.

But what d'ya expect from a party so revolutionary that they used to encourage their male recruits to get short back 'n' sides and wear a tie.

bollocks. if you believe that you'll believe that i have wings, a tail and can fly.

If it does get off the ground, i think it will become only slightly more succesful than RESPECT. The examples of recent years have been very poor the Socialist Labour Party......What happened to that great Red Hope.... The Socialist Alliance...... RESPECT.......
Seems like more of the same to me.....

i disagree. we have learnt from the SA, the SLP etc. which all turned out how we predicted. the fact that we aren't launching a party yet is also significant. respect have 4000 members officially, the CNWP has a target of getting 5000 to support the campaign by the end of the year. we aren't prematurly starting something, we are building support for it in local areas, trade unions etc etc, amongst ordinary working class people.

The SP talk a lot about a 'new party' but seem unwilling to obey the discipline implied by a party structure - in the Socialist Alliance they insisted on the 'right' to stand whatever candidates in whatever seat they wanted. In a party type structure there has to be a reasonable degree of collective democratic activity. The SP are clearly hostile to any organisation in which they are a minority to larger organised groups. Unless they change their ways the CNWP will remain stillborn, as a talking shop of the SP and its friends.

we support the use of a federal structure. partys do have the right to stand who they want and on there own platforms but it is not only that that was the problem, we couldn't stand anyone we suggested because it would get voted down and wouldn't be able to run our own campaigns because they would be run by the SWP dominated branches (also reasons why we won't join respect)(this is all also dispite our greater amount of exprirence at running election campaigns). when the SWP with control of the SA got rid of the federal structure we were willing to support another motion by another group as a compromise, but as that was rejected too we had to leave. look at the SA now and what the SWP did to it without a federal structure. we cannot predict the structure of any new party becuase it is up for that party to decide on their structure.

 

[tbaldwin]

Socialist Suzy,
I think there is a need for a new party on the left... And if it was pragmatic i would want to be in it.... But the Left needs to be broad based and actually reflect the concerns and aspirations of ordinary people... How will a new group avoid being the kind of narrow grouping that only appeals to the kind of sad people who go on anti war marches etc.....

 

[nino_savatte]

Maybe, but that doesn't alter the fact that it is not how people identify themselves.

Not sure what you're saying here. When I travel on the railways, I'm not a "customer", I am a passenger. When I vote in elections I am not a "consumer" or a "homeowner", I am a voter.

I am not a number, I am a free man!!!

 

[dennisr]

cops? cads?? cats???

cats, man

 

[netbob]

Not sure what you're saying here. When I travel on the railways, I'm not a "customer", I am a passenger. When I vote in elections I am not a "consumer" or a "homeowner", I am a voter.

I am not a number, I am a free man!!!

I think what I was getting at was the term 'worker' seems very dated to most people (factories and donkey jackets if you know what I mean). 'Passenger' and 'voter' don't really suffer from that.

IMO it's a general problem on the left. No one has found a new vocabulary to talk about what are, at root, a fairly basic set of principles.

I'm with you on the customer vs passenger though (especially as customer is supposed to indicate some level of decent service ). Ive always liked the fact that the Tube never started calling passengers customers.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think what I was getting at was the term 'worker' seems very dated to most people (factories and donkey jackets if you know what I mean). 'Passenger' and 'voter' don't really suffer from that.

IMO it's a general problem on the left. No one has found a new vocabulary to talk about what are, at root, a fairly basic set of principles.

I'm with you on the customer vs passenger though (especially as customer is supposed to indicate some level of decent service ). Ive always liked the fact that the Tube never started calling passengers customers.

Sure, the word "worker" appears to have a great deal of baggage attached to it; though, personally speaking, it has never been a problem for me. I quite like donkey jackets.

I suppose what I'm getting at, in terms of voting and elections, is that the electorate have been classified and categorised into demographic groups, akin to those found in marketing: babyboomers, DINKYs and so on. Political parties have adopted the language of business when referring to themselves and the electorate. One need only look at NuLabour to see that they behave in the fashion of a corporation; policies (such as they are) are promoted like branded products, with each one designed to have a particular appeal to a specific demographic group. Then there are other brands designed to have broad appeal: anti-social behaviour, for example.

Should an unpopular policy or idea fail to gain acceptance by the electorate, the government will often blame the "message" and will work hard to try and convince voters and MPs who oppose it of its value. Companies do this all the time: they will change a recipe or a design of a product against the wishes of its consumers only to find -after sales have plummeted - that they made a mistake. With governments the damage is already done and any work undertaken to repair the damage takes a long time to complete.

 

[netbob]

I quite like donkey jackets.

Can you even still buy them? Actually I bet you in Hoxton - picket line retro is probably the next big thing up there.

I suppose what I'm getting at, in terms of voting and elections, is that the electorate have been classified and categorised into demographic groups, akin to those found in marketing: babyboomers, DINKYs and so on.

Unfortuanatly it works because most of the time we are all very predictable. You could make a fairly convincing argument that the times when genuinley radical/new things happen in politics when people act unpredictably. e.g. working class people voting tory in 1979 or voting out Churchill in 1945.

 

[nino_savatte]

Can you even still buy them? Actually I bet you in Hoxton - picket line retro is probably the next big thing up there.



Unfortuanatly it works because most of the time we are all very predictable. You could make a fairly convincing argument that the times when genuinley radical/new things happen in politics when people act unpredictably. e.g. working class people voting tory in 1979 or voting out Churchill in 1945.

I haven't seen a donkey jacket for years as it goes.

Are you suggesting that everyone is "predictable"? I think I would exclude myself from that number. I know some people may fall for it but there are many who don't....they're the who either don't vote or vote according to their conscience, rather than go along with knee-jerk populism.

Mind you the recently coined "Essex Man" factor has played a decisive part in elections since 1945.

 

[Geoff Collier]

we support the use of a federal structure. partys do have the right to stand who they want and on there own platforms but it is not only that that was the problem, we couldn't stand anyone we suggested because it would get voted down and wouldn't be able to run our own campaigns because they would be run by the SWP dominated branches

As this must be a reference to the 2001 general election, I have to say YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS. The Socialist Party made their participation in the Socialist Alliance conditional on their members being the candidates in a list of specific seats - and this was accepted at a national level by the SWP and presumably anybody else the SP thought fit to consult. However it was imposed without discussion on the SA membership in the particular constituencies. Hull North, where I was at the time, was one such so I well remember it.

In the event the SP couldn't provide a candidate (the intended one pulled out after getting 18 votes in a council by-election earlier in the year) so they didn't actively particpate in the campaign. They, of course, spent their time in wakefield where the candidate was in the SP. No doubt they ran their own campaign there, as they did during the last general election whilst everyone pretended they were part of some green socialist coalition.

geoff c

 

[nwnm]

"If you want the sort of 'popular front' alliance where the left acts as a cover for right-wingers who talk left then it is probably worth contacting the wonderful SWP via our resident c**s" Will this wonderful new workers party of yours get all pally with new labourites in the PCS and vote for a sell out deal on pensions and attempt to defend it like you lot did then Den? Takes one to know one mate...

 

[netbob]

I haven't seen a donkey jacket for years as it goes.

Are you suggesting that everyone is "predictable"? I think I would exclude myself from that number. I know some people may fall for it but there are many who don't....they're the who either don't vote or vote according to their conscience, rather than go along with knee-jerk populism.

I know what you are getting at, but to a greater or lesser extent we are pretty predictable (in that we tend to fit in to groups of simular people). e.g. you could probably predict fairly acuratly your average Urbanites reaction to a given subject vs your average Young Conservative?

It's that kind of info that corperations and, as you posted parties, use to get at us.

 

[phildwyer]

Are you suggesting that everyone is "predictable"? I think I would exclude myself from that number.

I don't think I would.

 

[nino_savatte]

I know what you are getting at, but to a greater or lesser extent we are pretty predictable (in that we tend to fit in to groups of simular people). e.g. you could probably predict fairly acuratly your average Urbanites reaction to a given subject vs your average Young Conservative?

It's that kind of info that corperations and, as you posted parties, use to get at us.

Post-ideological party politics - innit?