Discussion in 'music, bands, clubs & festies' started by DrRingDing, Apr 11, 2013.
This is what he does.
grand. let's take the daily mail's take on things as gospel. have you a link to the footage?
if someone is evil in life, is it not sad that they ended up that way? therefore a life turned evil, as in thatcher's case, is a human tragedy., not a reason to celebrate?
You're right. I think, though, that sometimes people need to get angry about it. Because while it's sad, it's also angering because people choose to be cunts. You are a product of your environment, but that doesn't absolve you from responsibility of your actions. Sometimes anger at one individual person can be an outlet for anger at a wider system of things that encourages it and allows it to happen. It's harder to blame precisely what in the system or in society or in culture is responsible, obviously because it's a complex mix of things - but it's easy to channel that anger directly at the person who is being a cunt.
tell that to the prime minister
like the people outside executions in America? cheering? how are they different? i know the scale of some sorry murderer is far different to the devestation that thatcher caused, but the logic is still the same, no?
If this is all about Thatcher: just take a moment to think of precisely what she did. She presided over a set of actions and an era that stripped people of their dignity and agency. What has followed has been a steady torrent of policies that have continued that. People are broken. Your sentiment is sound, but it misses the nuance and reality of the situation. We do not live in an ideal world. It would be very lovely if we could all turn the other cheek and say, "isn't it a shame she turned out the way she did, I feel sorry for her" but we would be being grossly blind to the consequences of her actions and her reasons for doing what she did. You are trying to simplify a terribly complex issue, but I'm afraid that type of simplistic thinking isn't useful in our world. Everything is made up from a series of incredibly complex intertwined events and pieces, and cannot be reduced down in that way.
The misogyny is much more important as a factor in deciding whether to buy his records and butter than the Thatcher stuff. Based on the quote above, it's illegal downloads and Lurpak all the way. What a wanker.
Rotten not dancing on Thatcher's grave is much the same as John Lennon singing 'imagine no possessions'.
Am i right in thinking that most of those people won't be directly impacted by the actions of the person getting executed though?
I think the people who were celebrating the death of Thatcher were celebrating the end of something really destructive, not the person but her ideas and her actions. Actions that impact many many people and continue to do so. No one is celebrating the death of a greengrocers daughter, they are celebrating the end of the cause of Thatcherism. I can't wait to dance on Thatcherism's grave, though with this shower in government the champagne is still firmly on ice.
If you cant let go of hatred, you become poisoned by it
Though I am loathe to say it, perhaps Johnny boy is approaching a smidgeon of wisdom
I was celebrating the death of thatcher the person. I was celebrating the death of a greengrocers daughter
That's very simplistic. Hatred in this case is fuelled in the most part by a critical understanding of what she did and the consequences of that. Hatred expressed against her is evidence of just how impotent people feel as a result of what she brought about. People have nothing else but their hatred. It's no surprise that when you strip people of their political agency and crush their will for decades, this is all they have left. It isn't something to sneer at people over, or for them to feel ashamed of. It is perfectly natural that there be so much hate for her and the politics she espoused. It's perfectly natural that even though more hatred should be directed at the policies, it will be directed at those who enact them, because of course policies can't stand on their own, they require human action to exist.
If we let go of all our hatred, we stop questioning, we stop being critical, and we start just accepting what happens. There are some things in life where turning the other cheek can be counter-productive.
I'm hopeful that the outpouring of hatred against her may help keep the hatred for the policies alive and maybe reignite the fire under some people to want to keep fighting. Because it's very hard to keep fighting. Sometimes you need something to help you along.
Yes, public sexism, boorishness and general contempt is a sign of great wisdom in many cultures.
And def not just an old drama queen annoyed at someone else being the centre of attention.
Yeah but you weren't celebrating her death because she was a greengrocers daughter. Which is something the moral outrage surrounding these celebrations misses. Someone who treated people with such disrespect in life can not then be expected to receive respect in death.
I was not sneering
You seem to be projecting onto me an architype of which you disapprove and feel needs to be attacked
"If we let go of all our hatred, we stop questioning, we stop being critical, and we start just accepting what happens"
I'm sure Nick Griffin would agree with you, word for word
Did say "smidgeon"
Am not claiming he's he's not "old drama queen"
He is old enough and been famous long enough to know fucking better.
I'm not sure how being famous is supposed to give him any insight on how to behave himself
I agree with Russell Brand on this point:-
"This demonstrates, I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies."
Felt the same about people celebrating the deaths of Bin Laden and Hussain
Loathe as I am to disrespect such a Sage and Teacher of Higher Truths, this is fanciful nonsense.
It's all very lovely to imagine that compassion and love are infinite and perfect in themselves, not sullied by notions of deserving or not deserving.
But that's not true, is it? Loving forgiveness, sometimes even for minor wounds done to us by those we loved to start with, is hard work. I don't believe it makes me a less compassionate person in general if I see no reason to try and feel compassion for a specific individual with whom I have no personal connection and most of whose actions and beliefs I regard as deeply unpleasant and the cause of misery to millions.
To simplify it even further i just don't think the answer to hate and negativity is more hate and negativity.
Pronbably not the right time/place but i feel thats whats wrong with a lot of, cough, lefties - they are just as nasty and negative and hateful as the facists.
Take the high road, its smugger up here!
not to mention more addictive.
What as this got to do with John Lydon being a prick?
Did you read the transcript of his interview?
You see its hard to tell if people reacting to his sexism, nazi salute or condemning of dancing on Thatcher's grave
Brand is as big a cock end as Lydon
I only red the OP
John Lydon? Mr Rotten himself? Condemning the dancing on Thatchers grave? Ha
Thanks for your erudite and reasoned reply
I am not sure if he was more irritating when he was being a 'naughty boy' or now he is clean and all hippy and shit.
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