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New Left Party Success shocker in Germany!:could it happen here?

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Any idea of what the resolution said at the last AGM? If that happened it would obviously have massive implications for RESPECT.[/QUOTE]

Report from the Socialist

THE RMT conference passed a motion from Bristol Rail branch calling for the union executive to "build a national conference of trade unions and organisations of working class communities and political organisations to discuss the crisis of political representation of the working class".

The movers of the resolution supported the call for a new workers' party, but unfortunately Bob Crow, summing up the debate, specifically ruled this out - pointing out that the resolution merely called for a discussion on representation of the working class.
 
Yeah the Workers Power member who helped to shape the resolution last year is in the Bristol branch. It sounds like what happened was very similar to last year (haven't spoken to the bloke in Bristol), but the commitment to a conference seems more solid.

Also it's interesting that Bob Crow is openly talking about having the conference.
 
john malcolm said:
but unfortunately Bob Crow, summing up the debate, specifically ruled this out - pointing out that the resolution merely called for a discussion on representation of the working class.
Click to expand...

I wasn't at this year's AGM so can't comment on that; but what was generally acknowledged at Westminster this week was that it was a major policy shift from Crow. He was explicit in his desire and willingness to take a leading role in building a new party.

Only time will tell, I guess.
 
treelover said:
Unfortunately, while i welcome this, i think any broad formation that has the Trotskyist Left in it as a component is doomed to failure, imo, they are serial splitters,and chaos merchants, they have dangerous illusions of grandeur(just see above for postings on their 'positions)
Click to expand...
why? they're involved in the German grouping, rather obviouisly involved in the SSP, and will be involved in any grouping that establishes itself in the UK or virtually any other country in the world for that matter.

Kneejerk anti-'trotism' is as pointless as 99% of trotskyists are.
 
of course, i don't mean individuals like your goodself, Belboid, (or your other
half!) ;) :D

comfortably puts Belboid and co in 1%
 
oi! I aint a bleedin' trot guv'nor!!

nor am i from London, so why I wrote like that, lord above knows!

But..yes, I do agree with your criticisms, in a broad manner, but i think that those characteristics have largely come about due to trotskyisms lack of influence or power over the last...thirty, forty, fifty years. Were they not all but irrelevant, well, they might be a bit different.
 
incredible, i wonder if they will come over here to speak after the elections


'But the latest polls show the Left party winning up to 60 Bundestag seats, which would make it Germany's third-largest political force.'
 
There's an interesting paper called "Jungle World" that rejected stalinism and grown to be a good-ish paper.

Aside from the ongoing arguments about Lafontaine's alleged play for votes from racists there remains the fundamental split in the "party" between the PDS, social democratic/trade union bureaucrats and good activists.

I've a mate over in Germany who is a party member so I'll try and get news off him. Latest was that one bureaucrat bloke was trying to get him into bed to spy on the radical wing of the party.

And a massive regional split the last couple of days between the conservative parties. Luvvin it! :D
 
Surely thats a massive generalisation, there are some good PDS politicians i'm sure,(plus theres that young and female PDS MP!) some decent trade unionists, and some very bad activists as well.


'there remains the fundamental split in the "party" between the PDS, social democratic/trade union bureaucrats and good activists.'
 
Of course there are some good activists in the PDS, possibly some good activists who are moving away from being social democrats. And of course there are "bad" activists who are independent of those 2 blocks in the "party".

But the "party" is fundamentally split those 3 ways and it remains to bee seen who gains the upper hand within the party, who appeals to the voters where and whether this is a breakthrough that puts progressive politics in ts broadest sense back on the mainstream political agenda.
 
Do you really believe that if the Trots become the dominant force in the Left Party, they will have the same sort of (relative) electoral sucess/votes they are having at present? or do the Trots want to take over the Left party so making it yet another ineffectual faction


'However, the various Trotskyists make up more than a tenth of WASG membership and are coherently organised which gives them some clout, particularly in certain cities. Their influence would be greater if the two main groups were pulling in the same direction of course but already SAV has had enough impact in raising socialist ideas to attract witchhunts from the leadership.'
 
actually i meant as people, not politicos!

'Of course there are some good activists in the PDS, possibly some good activists who are moving away from being social democrats. And of course there are "bad" activists who are independent of those 2 blocks in the "party".'
 
So, if the opinion polls are right and the CDU is largest party but without a majority and nowhere else to go but the SPD, what happens next?

Who do the CDU form a government with? the SPD? Could be disastrous for the SPD in the long term (destroying any remaining credibility as a alternative to the right)
 
AFAIK.

The CDU is currently set to be the biggest party in the Bundestag after the election. BUT!

The "Liberals" ie extreme neo-liberals don't want Stoiber, the leader of the Bavarian Conservative CSU (different party) to have a role. But he will bring in a LOT of votes.

The SPD are thinking aloud about dumping current Chancellor (PM) Schröder.

It MIGHT happen that the north German CDU emerges as the biggest party but finds it unable to form a government.


----------------
A fair bit of the arguments against the north German CDU is that is led by a woman. Interesting conflicts there as to whether one hopes that will be a hinderence.
 
Isambard said:
Allegedly Lafontaine’s “Fremdarbeiter” comment pertained to proposed EU rules that would allow anyone to work anywhere in the EU under their “home” conditions, thus undermining negotiated pay, terms and conditions in Germany. In reality however, it was a piece of short hand to give a nice little bit of racist spin on the message to sections of Germany’s disillusioned working class. There are no votes to be won with anti-racism in Germany.
Click to expand...


On the phone to my friend in Germany in the WASG earlier. Lafontaine's "badly chosen words" etc have been picked up again for a political poster.........by the f***inf nazi NPD!

They don't pussyfoot around like handwringing centrist old bollix trying to pick up racists votes:

"No foreign workers, work only for Germans!"
 
Isambard said:
AFAIK.

The CDU is currently set to be the biggest party in the Bundestag after the election. BUT!

The "Liberals" ie extreme neo-liberals don't want Stoiber, the leader of the Bavarian Conservative CSU (different party) to have a role. But he will bring in a LOT of votes.

The SPD are thinking aloud about dumping current Chancellor (PM) Schröder.

It MIGHT happen that the north German CDU emerges as the biggest party but finds it unable to form a government.


----------------
A fair bit of the arguments against the north German CDU is that is led by a woman. Interesting conflicts there as to whether one hopes that will be a hinderence.
Click to expand...

Didn't the last opinion poll suggest that the Free Democrats (CDU-CSU's preferred junior coalition partners) are hovering around the 5% mark, which endangers their picking up seats on the PR system. Another headache for Merkel et al.
 
The lastest poll on the ARD (BBC equivilent) website (but it is about a week old) has:

SPD 29%
CDU/CSU 42 %
Green 9%
FDP 6%
Linkspartei 10%

So a conservative-liberal coalition wouldn't have a majority and if the FDP (arrogant bunch of w***ers) failed the 5% hurdle....... :D

But polling is still 5 weeks away.

AFAIK, the Linkspartei has said it would NOT join any coalition government but wanted to stay in opposition to the neo-liberal trends of ALL the parties.
But it might be a very juicy carrot that is dangled in front of them that might appeal to both the old SPD / trade union careerists and the PDS factions............

............and leave the independent activists out in the cold. :(
 
Are the German Greens having debates about their relationship to the Left Party at all? I would have thought there must be some socialist Greens interested...

On a rather irrelevant note, the WSWS party in Germany is standing against the Left Party because it is 'reformist'. But then, the WSWS are outside Respect too.
 
rebel warrior said:
Are the German Greens having debates about their relationship to the Left Party at all? I would have thought there must be some socialist Greens interested...

On a rather irrelevant note, the WSWS party in Germany is standing against the Left Party because it is 'reformist'. But then, the WSWS are outside Respect too.
Click to expand...

Hello RW just in case you'd forgotten the other threads you've walked away from:

1. Is there a German Left Party equivalent to the dual membership of Respect and the Islamic Party of Britain?

2. Would the German working class be better represented by people drawn from its own ranks?

3. Would more representatives drawn from Germany's ethnic minority 'communities' neccessarily benefit the working class members of those 'communities'?

Louis Mac

p.s. please feel free to return to the threads which prompted these questions.
 
Louis MacNeice said:
3. Would more representatives drawn from Germany's ethnic minority 'communities' neccessarily benefit the working class members of those 'communities'?
Click to expand...

I can see where you're coming from Louis but it's irrelevent in this case.
Generally speaking, ethnic minorities in Germany (that's 25-30% in the bigger cities) are neither represented or allowed to vote and are "whipping boys" for all the parties except the Greens.
 
Isambard said:
I can see where you're coming from Louis but it's irrelevent in this case.
Generally speaking, ethnic minorities in Germany (that's 25-30% in the bigger cities) are neither represented or allowed to vote and are "whipping boys" for all the parties except the Greens.
Click to expand...

Isambard - sorry I was being a bit cheeky and trying to remind RW about some answered questions they had left on other threads. It doesn't seemed to have worked though.

Cheers - Louis Mac
 
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