chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
So economic migration is just poorer countries losing skilled workers?
Of course its not.
There are many types of economic migrant.
Why pick on just one?
New Green Party policies on banks (and migration)
- Thread starter taffboy gwyrdd
- Start date
So economic migration is just poorer countries losing skilled workers?
Of course its not.
There are many types of economic migrant.
Why pick on just one?
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
So 2 million unemployed, yet people come here because they can get jobs?
That is more interesting territory, yet not grounds to damn all migration.
The short answer is cos its HUGELY important. Economic migration is having a terrible effect and parties like the Greeens need to be honest about it and try to counter it.
I dont think there could be anything much more cruel than economic migration.
It has massivelly negative effects on poorer countries and splits friends and families up.
Twobraincells your at it again. Who do you think is most likely to be able to migrate from poorer countries?
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
That very much depends.
so youve studied it have you? I would be interested in what your studies have shown you, two braincells.
Did they show that actually it was all rather good that richer countries took skilled workers from poorer countries as you rather liked the cosmpolitan atmosphere and cheap foreign restaurants.
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
...that and actually being an economic migrant myself.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Well, considering how you never give any facts, i think it's fairly safe tosay you've only gone off what you see on the news and your own presumptions. Please do try and come up with something to counter that thought tho, it would make a pleasant change from your normal behaviour.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
So unskilled migrants aren't a problem?
Nor are migrants from richer countries?
So....
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
Thats not what i said is it? I have never described economic migrants as a problem just economic migration.
And of course unskilled migration also creates problems and migration from richer countries can also be a problem as i think a short history of imperialism might prove even to twobraincells.
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
It stops poorer nations developing and makes the world a more unequal place. The people most likely to migrate are exactly the people needed by those nations. Doctors,Engineers,Nurses,Teachers,people with IT skills.
India is often pointed to by pro migratrionists as showing that economic migration can have good effects on poorer nations. Over 880 million people in India suvive on less than $2 a day. Money sent home goes to the same families and proves the remittances arguement to be at best deeply flawed.
Economic migration has had the effect of further increasing inequality in countries like the phillipines,india etc.
Economic migration also has two main effects on betteroff countries like the US and UK. It obviously increases the labour supply pushing down wages and increases demand for housing. These two issues mean that generally speaking economic migration is good for the richest people in those countries but can have a negative effect on people further down the income scale competing for jobs and housing.
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
Thanks. I'm (obvioulsy) in disagreement here's why.
No.
Developing countries have enough labour and enough capital to develop. That they don't is not the result of an exflux of skilled workers, but because those in power (both here and there)are suited by the current state of affairs. The rich in developing countries are very rich. (3 out of the world top ten richest for example).
is that true? Do you have the stats? I don't agree.
Not by me. This is not what I'm arguing...
...nor do I send remitances home myself anyway!!!
taking into account emigrants... there is a relatively small increase in labour supply
Nor does it take into account the UK's ageing population.
No.
Developing countries have enough labour and enough capital to develop. That they don't is not the result of an exflux of skilled workers, but because those in power (both here and there)are suited by the current state of affairs. The rich in developing countries are very rich. (3 out of the world top ten richest for example).
is that true? Do you have the stats? I don't agree.
Not by me. This is not what I'm arguing...
...nor do I send remitances home myself anyway!!!
taking into account emigrants... there is a relatively small increase in labour supply
Nor does it take into account the UK's ageing population.
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
Even the Daily Express agrees that economic immigration is not pushing up the populaion...
noting that only a relatively small number were actually entering the labour market...
...but not enough to make up for the loss in the labour market of economic emmigrants
Of course the Express article puts a different spin on their article, but look behind the rhetoric and bile and concentrate on the facts and figures and the stats do suggest quite emphatically that economic migration does not mean increased competition for jobs.
(Disclaimer. the figures were for 2006, and given the relative parity it would not be surprising to see the balance in net migration fluctuate between emmigrants and immigrants...the point however is that economic migration does not automatically mean increased competition for jobs etc. in the UK)
noting that only a relatively small number were actually entering the labour market...
...but not enough to make up for the loss in the labour market of economic emmigrants
Of course the Express article puts a different spin on their article, but look behind the rhetoric and bile and concentrate on the facts and figures and the stats do suggest quite emphatically that economic migration does not mean increased competition for jobs.
(Disclaimer. the figures were for 2006, and given the relative parity it would not be surprising to see the balance in net migration fluctuate between emmigrants and immigrants...the point however is that economic migration does not automatically mean increased competition for jobs etc. in the UK)
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
there are no stats to show immigration leads to lowering of wages - for the simple reason that it doesn't. there are some stats that indicate it slightly decreases the rate of wage rises, but that's not the same thing. baldies attempt at a point re remittances doesn't actually make sense. Research shows that more money is sent 'home' by overseas workers than they would have earned if they had stayed there. the fact that irt is sent to those workers' families makes no odds - unless baldie thinks that if they stayed at home those same workers would jsut dish the dosh out to anyone passing by.
and of course you are right chilango, that the cause of the massive disparity between the rich and the poor nations is naff all to do with migration, and everything to do with an economic system that ensures the 'third world' remains impoverished. even baldie recognises that fact (occasionally), he just thinks that those suffering most from its ill-effects must put up with their suffering until good liberals like himself sort it all out.
and of course you are right chilango, that the cause of the massive disparity between the rich and the poor nations is naff all to do with migration, and everything to do with an economic system that ensures the 'third world' remains impoverished. even baldie recognises that fact (occasionally), he just thinks that those suffering most from its ill-effects must put up with their suffering until good liberals like himself sort it all out.
well of course it is interesting lol .. and it is the basis for migration to this country in the last few years .. and NO one on here not me not TB is against migration .. we both object to the use of migration by the rich
seriously bb this ^^ is childish .. 95% or more of migrants to this country are not poor (where they come from) and are not starving
but yes it seems harsh for communities to 'close the door' .. but that is what trade unions do and that is what most of us in our lives do .. do YOU invite any homeless person into your house? and that is the only way to create the power we need to actually get rid of the vast inequality in the world instead of just moan about it
yes there are plenty of stats to show how wages have been depressed held back and even lowered .. well at least for the majority of ordinary workers .. for the middle classes migration has been a benefit ..
are you telling us which side you are on?
why do the bosses employ migrants bb?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
the chinese workers smuggled over to pock cockles were hardly the better off chinese. similarly for most african migrants, their poor (or no better off than average) young men overwhelmingly. there obviously is a 'middle-class' migration, those baldie referred to, but it is the british immigration system that actually stops those people from returning to their home countries and sharing their newly developed skills.
oh please, don't give me that moralistic tosh. this country is not the same as my home, its a ridiculous analogy. this country is owned by the rich, and it has ripped off people from all over the globe as well as at 'home', it makes its wealth from all parts of the globe, as well as at 'home.' Let's make those who really cause inequality pay, not those who suffer from it the most.
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