SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
The Unseen said:
Because the alternative, ie trying to live on absolutely nothing, ain't very attractive
new deal question
- Thread starter heartof gold
- Start date
Because the alternative, ie trying to live on absolutely nothing, ain't very attractive
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
The Unseen said:
I don't know anyone on JSA who lives with their mum...sorry, but it sounds like you're talking out of your arse. Perhaps you should have a chat to those adults who have to live on JSA and are expected to feed themselves and their family and pay all of their bills on a measly £59.50 a week.
The Unseen said:
Because it would mean having to get up early...
And its not an JSA or nothing decision... Its a JSA or earning around the same, but with the opportunity to do better and get on with your life...
And what if there are no jobs where you are...? Well, do what the people did before they had the safety net of JSA... Move...! Why do you think everyone moved out of the country when the industrial revolution happened...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
jæd said:
You do talk some shit, don't you?
You've got about as much grasp of British history as you have of compassion: Fuck all.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
jæd said:
Because local craftsmen couldn't compete with factories and lost their jobs, leaving them no choice. They weren't sitting around with their thumbs up their arses before some kindly soul built a factory for them to work in you know.
Funki mamma
..still shakin' dat tush!
So where are we all going to move to then? Cities already overcrowded,not
enough affordable housing. I'm a single parent (not through choice) I've
done college course after college course. I now do volunteering
work, I need hours to fit in around school times. My youngest son starts
secondary school next September, which means more pressure from New Deal.
My age and lack of 'real' work experience goes against me, even though I'm
qualified. I send off application forms, but don't even get to interview level.
The only way someone like me will get a 'proper job' is through someone I know.
That is MY reality. I already feel stigmatised,suffer often with low self
esteem and reading some of the comments on here by people who haven't a
clue pisses me right off.
enough affordable housing. I'm a single parent (not through choice) I've
done college course after college course. I now do volunteering
work, I need hours to fit in around school times. My youngest son starts
secondary school next September, which means more pressure from New Deal.
My age and lack of 'real' work experience goes against me, even though I'm
qualified. I send off application forms, but don't even get to interview level.
The only way someone like me will get a 'proper job' is through someone I know.
That is MY reality. I already feel stigmatised,suffer often with low self
esteem and reading some of the comments on here by people who haven't a
clue pisses me right off.
_angel_
.
Funki mamma said:So where are we all going to move to then? Cities already overcrowded,not
enough affordable housing. I'm a single parent (not through choice) I've
done college course after college course. I now do volunteering
work, I need hours to fit in around school times. My youngest son starts
secondary school next September, which means more pressure from New Deal.
My age and lack of 'real' work experience goes against me, even though I'm
qualified. I send off application forms, but don't even get to interview level.
The only way someone like me will get a 'proper job' is through someone I know.
That is MY reality. I already feel stigmatised,suffer often with low self
esteem and reading some of the comments on here by people who haven't a
clue pisses me right off.
Sound in a similar position, although I tend to get to interview and no further.
Only four weeks into my youngest starting primary school and I had about five rejections. Not good for your self esteem.
Also not sure how many employers would be flexible around the fact between the two of my sons schools have been closed for about two weeks on and off over the course of this first term to date.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Funki mamma said:So where are we all going to move to then? Cities already overcrowded,not
enough affordable housing. I'm a single parent (not through choice) I've
done college course after college course. I now do volunteering
work, I need hours to fit in around school times. My youngest son starts
secondary school next September, which means more pressure from New Deal.
My age and lack of 'real' work experience goes against me, even though I'm
qualified. I send off application forms, but don't even get to interview level.
The only way someone like me will get a 'proper job' is through someone I know.
That is MY reality. I already feel stigmatised,suffer often with low self
esteem and reading some of the comments on here by people who haven't a
clue pisses me right off.
Yeah, but it's easier for people to make blanket assumptions than it is to engage with the truth, which is that "the market" prefers to have a pool of unemployed labour (skilled and unskilled) to "incentivise" those who do work not to get ideas above their station.
Your points about housing, experience etc are all well-made.
The Unseen
Boy Done Gun
The OP is the person i am talking about, NOT every single living person in this country who make a claim.nino_savatte said:
I don't know everybodys circumstance, but in this occasion, i believe the OP is work shy
Especially when you take into consideration that she is contemplating going on sick pay just to get out of New Deal, taking the piss, in my eye out of the genuine claimers of disability allowance.
In general, if the option is there to move, and the job secured, then it should be taken. There isn't any excuse if you are perfectly able to do so, and i'm pretty sure if you push hard enough it can be achieved even with no money.
I have personally been through this, shitting myself at living on the streets, intimidation from junkies in hostels. To be honest i can't think of a better incentive to get out of the hole.
I took a job on that i hated with a passion, but its what i had to do to get by.
scifisam
deleted
The Unseen said:
She does sound it on this thread, but that might be just because she hasn't explained herself properly, of course.
But then, most of the solutions you've been suggesting genuinely aren't that useful to most people.
Move?
With what money?
Where to? Some people will have problems finding work wherever they live.
Where do you get the money for the deposit on a place - and how do you get a place when most won't take DSS?
What if you have a housing association or council place - give that up? (I swapped mine for a different location, but I was well-placed to do so - there were plenty of crazy people who wanted my suburban Essex flat, but the same doesn't apply to most locations).
What if you have responsibilities in your area, even if it's just looking after your neice a couple of evenings a week?
What if you just really, really don't want to leave all your family and friends when it's not clear that you'll get a job at all, or that you'll keep it once you've got it?
Sometimes movng is an option, certainly. But, fairly often, it's not.
I have to say, that's not really the best way to encourage some into work. 'Go to work - you'll hate it, live on the streets and be threatened by junkies!'
To all those people wondering what unemployed people did before the welfare state - well, let's see:
They had to depend on the church, other charities or extended family, the head of the household might leave their whole home and family to move somewhere for the chance of work, they might take on jobs that had a very high physical risk, they might go to the workhouse; perhaps they could give their kids up to the orphanage or send them to live with random relatives, or maybe send their kids out to work very young. Of course, they'd also live entire families to one room, grow their own food if they had anywhere to do so (which many didn't, and even fewer do today), not send their kids to school, pawn anything they had of any value at all (including the clothes off their back), not buy any clothes (even ones to keep warm in Winter), not buy any medicines, cut dangerously low on heating and food, go poaching, steal from others, beg, prostitute themselves and, when all that failed, starve to death.
I'd rather have a welfare state, myself.
It's not as simple as 'before the welfare state, people jolly well got out there and did anything they could to find work.' That is true, but fairly often, that work was inhumane, and, also often, there was no work and the above circumstances happened.
Sorry - it's a bit of a tangent, but it fucking annoys me.
The Unseen
Boy Done Gun
All very good points, i offer my tuppence worth as vain as it may seem.scifisam said:
If someone is struggling to get by, it would be sensible of the mother and father of the child to take on the responsibility of there own child and not making the JSA claimant's position any more difficult than it needs to be. I know it sounds harsh, but ya have to look after yourself if nobody else is gonna help you out whilst you help them out. Why struggle?
Family will always be there if they love you and you love them. But if you want to be more comfortable, you have to take steps towards making it comfortable. It ain't easy to accept i'm confident about that. I often ask Polish co workers what its like to be away from home, so far aswell, its sad but often they say they have to do it.
I hate to say it, cos i know how tough things can be sometimes, but if the government ain't gonna help you when you need it, assuming your able and capable of work, you've gotta help yourself. Scrimping and saving on certain things like electric usage (assuming a JSA claimant is paying there own way on electric), don't use the lights as much, use a blanket for heat etc... goto netto instead of tesco, or just buy Tesco Value stuff, might not be brilliant but it feeds you.
Why should you do that, assuming the JSA claimant does actually want to work but can't find it in the area? Because thats the way shit is, why wait for somebody else to help you? Help yourself its a much better incentive because when things are achieved it feels great. But thats not to say don't stop shouting about how shit New Deal can be, because thats progress.
If New Deal really is as shit as it sounds, then yes it needs improving, so the New Deal students, for the want of a better word, are the best possible source of argument against the current structure, want it improved? Try it out and find what you think are weaknesses.
Whilst cutting back on costs and saving money, put it towards a first months rent and bond. Secure a job, then secure a flat, in a new area if needs be.
I know how tough shit, minimum wage jobs can be, the racists, the biggots, the brawlers, the sexists, the low self esteem vibe, the aggression etc.. But if you keep your head about yourself and your goals, you can succeed. Working in tough environments like that boads well to better paid job employers. Its almost like Johnny employer thinks, 'they can handle that, this job is easy in comparison'. Mostly it is in my experience. It takes time ofcourse, but you've got time.
lol, i'd like to point out there you got me the wrong way round, i don't recommend living on the streets or in hostels with junkies, but it is a great incentive to get away from it all.I have to say, that's not really the best way to encourage some into work. 'Go to work - you'll hate it, live on the streets and be threatened by junkies!'
Yeah, i find that quite interesting actually. If they had to do shit, they did it. Same as what i'm trying to get across, in modern britain. Its briliant we've got a welfare system, it gives people a chance, if they are able, to get back on there feet if thats what they really want.
In hindsight some of my comments earlier may have been a bit to hasty, i also wouldn't want to see any people starving on the streets if they choose not to work. Not that i respect that choice.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
the new deal sceme is getting crapper... cutting courses from 26 weeks to 13 basically means that the person get practically fuck all in terms of training
we get 13 weeks to teach multimedia (web-design) ... that's nothing...
how can anyone expect to learn any decent skill set in 13 weeks?*
*ok we get some who can do it but they arn't the people who actually need the help
we get 13 weeks to teach multimedia (web-design) ... that's nothing...
how can anyone expect to learn any decent skill set in 13 weeks?*
*ok we get some who can do it but they arn't the people who actually need the help
The Unseen
Boy Done Gun
I can't imagine what that must be like, was it you who was a teacher in Japan or China somewhere? Or was that Ninjaboy?firky said:
You shouldn't feel all bad about it though, your current trade (kinda like a forest NHS or something?) sounds like an absolute awesome trade to be in. Its attractive to me at least.
scifisam
deleted
The Unseen said:
True. Course, you could then end up with the parent ending up out of work because they've lost their childcare. One in, one out!
This is one that, personally, makes the least sense to me, but that's because I've never had a problem moving around. I only included it with the proviso that you're not even sure there'll be a job, or that it'll last. That could, for some people, mean that leaving your support network could swing the balance in favour of not taking the risk.
For the Polish workers, whether they get a job or not (and they seem to always get one - often at way below minimum wage), at least they have a chance to practice their English, which will help them in getting other jobs!
When I've been on JSA, I've done all that just to survive. Actually, I still do when I'm working, but one day, hopefully, that'll improve!
That's an awful lot of money to save when the money you have isn't enough to live on.
The social fund can help with that, but it would still leave you with a few hundred to save up.
New Deal, in my experience, varies greatly. I've been on a course that was awful (though this was many years ago) and taught on some that were great in some ways; they were interesting courses (basic skills, ESL and basic IT), or, at least, they were at my college, but the main people they helped were people who only needed a little leg-up, or a recent reference or something.
For those with really low basic skills, or those who could manage to pass a CLAIT + course but had other things that made them unattractive to employers, the courses rarely worked, to be honest.
(That's why I put up that thread about New Deal driving lessons before, because that was the only extra teachable skill I could think of that really would help people get jobs).
@heartofgold - I honestly do think you should give it a go. It might not be as shit as it was last time, and there's certainly no reason for the government fuck-up with your benefits to happen again.
See, now, again, you're not making going back to work sound attractive.
If I misunderstood you before, I haven't this time!I think I see what you're saying - not that you think people should have to do shit work, ideally, but that that's the way it currently is, so we have to roll with it? Is that anywhere near close?
The problem is that, sometimes, even shit work isn't feasable, either because of transport and the costs of working (though working tax credit can help with that, and not just for parents, which is a start in improvng the system), or because someone else has got the job. So many shit jobs these days still need qualifications and experience, or, at least, knowing the right people.
The Unseen
Boy Done Gun
The way my post panned out was more like a word of advise (take it or leave it kinda thing) for people afraid of the future in regards to moneys, qualifications or lack of, need for uprooting etc.. as long as they are able and wanting for a comfortable way of life (well, more comfortable in a basic needs sense) and a harsh kind of truth type thing.
Yeah pretty much, what choice do we have? There is no alternate reality for us to go live in, some of the best of what the world has to offer in terms of employment for British workers, is in Britain. Unless your highly qualified, or have a skill needed in Canada, New Zealand or Australia.
I despise the jobs i have to do, its completely inhumane to the extent that any kind of discussion in some places is against company policy or whatnot, regulations.
To expect someone to do repetitive work for minimum wage or any wage really is asking alot, but to not communicate with people you see everyday (which is totally impossible), is a fucking joke. We ain't inferior, were people just like every fucker else.
Social animals being told not to socialise, lol. WRONG
But thats the ways shit is, you want better for yourself go get it, but fight for your rights as a human being all the way, don't expect others success to get you through life. Expect to start from absolute utter shit though, there you will meet interesting if not pleasent personalitys.
Yeah pretty much, what choice do we have? There is no alternate reality for us to go live in, some of the best of what the world has to offer in terms of employment for British workers, is in Britain. Unless your highly qualified, or have a skill needed in Canada, New Zealand or Australia.
I despise the jobs i have to do, its completely inhumane to the extent that any kind of discussion in some places is against company policy or whatnot, regulations.
To expect someone to do repetitive work for minimum wage or any wage really is asking alot, but to not communicate with people you see everyday (which is totally impossible), is a fucking joke. We ain't inferior, were people just like every fucker else.
Social animals being told not to socialise, lol. WRONG
But thats the ways shit is, you want better for yourself go get it, but fight for your rights as a human being all the way, don't expect others success to get you through life. Expect to start from absolute utter shit though, there you will meet interesting if not pleasent personalitys.
ice-is-forming
Good kids caught down in the never never
you only got one shot
The Unseen
Boy Done Gun
ZAKTLYice-is-forming said:you only got one shot
its the truth
_angel_
.
Just want to echo what funkimamma said and flag up a point someone made about people 'choosing not to work'
I reckon thats the way it's being portrayed. Choosing 'not to work' now means not wanting to move or actually having the financial backing to do it even if you wanted to.
I've been applying for jobs and not got any so far. I have GCSES A levels, a degree and experience of various office jobs but so far got nothing.
Far too many people just saying 'get a job any job' as if they are falling off the trees does my head in.
Maybe if I was single and living at home the temp agency option would be viable but I can't do that as I have to have a guaranteed income coming in every week so need something part time but also very flexible.
I reckon thats the way it's being portrayed. Choosing 'not to work' now means not wanting to move or actually having the financial backing to do it even if you wanted to.
I've been applying for jobs and not got any so far. I have GCSES A levels, a degree and experience of various office jobs but so far got nothing.
Far too many people just saying 'get a job any job' as if they are falling off the trees does my head in.
Maybe if I was single and living at home the temp agency option would be viable but I can't do that as I have to have a guaranteed income coming in every week so need something part time but also very flexible.
Funki mamma
..still shakin' dat tush!
Ditto. I 'chose not to work' in that I had to leave an abusive relationship,
was then homeless. I'd moved 5 times before my son started primary school.
He had 'behaviour issues'. As a lone parent, quite often you are the only
stable influence in that childs life, to then go out to work and pay someone
else to take care of your child just dos'nt make sense. Better for the childs
mum to remain at home. My son has in recent years settled down but still
has insecurity issues. Which as we all know ends up with fucked up youths
on street at a later date. My point being, I guess is that I chose to be a full
time parent for the sake of my childs mental health. So I, indeed for the time
being chose not to work.
was then homeless. I'd moved 5 times before my son started primary school.
He had 'behaviour issues'. As a lone parent, quite often you are the only
stable influence in that childs life, to then go out to work and pay someone
else to take care of your child just dos'nt make sense. Better for the childs
mum to remain at home. My son has in recent years settled down but still
has insecurity issues. Which as we all know ends up with fucked up youths
on street at a later date. My point being, I guess is that I chose to be a full
time parent for the sake of my childs mental health. So I, indeed for the time
being chose not to work.
_angel_
.
Funki mamma said:
I can understand - not in a physically abusive relationship but it ended.. I worked out we'd moved a ludicrous number of times as well before eldest turned five.
Being a full time parent should be respected *even* on the DSS - as you say, you are the only one there to do the job of two *or more* people.
The way the world is run when you have a kid is they expect there to be a nineteen fifties style housewife sitting at home just in case.
Never mind *just* when a child is sick at the drop of a hat, but when the school's decide to close without warning (they've had between them two weeks off, on monday no one even rang to say the place was closed) This kind of thing would not go down well with an employer and who can blame them?
Funki mamma
..still shakin' dat tush!
'xactly, a 'big up' to all us single parents. Trying to get by on income
support, running a home etc on a tight budget successfully is an incredible
achievement. I do have to remind myself of that when I start getting
feelings of low self worth.
support, running a home etc on a tight budget successfully is an incredible
achievement. I do have to remind myself of that when I start getting
feelings of low self worth.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
The only time home work was an option was in the minds of science programme makers in the 1960s and 70s. Remember, the ‘Tomorrow’s World’ take on the tomorrows of today; scenarios which had us all working from home; predicting the demise of the commuter.The Unseen said:
With the demise of manufacturing in the UK; there is probably less home working now than ever in the past.
Home work was always a pipe dream; despite ever more controlling technology in place; bosses will always want to ensure they’re getting everything they possibly can from an employee. Working from home takes away an element of that control.
As for disabled people working from home; why should we be treated differently? I’ve been trying to do this for years. However, whether working from home, an office or factory; I’d not be able to ‘profitably’ work more than maybe three hours a day – I not sleeping now (it’s 4.12 am) due to chronic pain; if I was working, I’d most likely need to be getting up in a couple of hours – try going to work week in week out while surviving on an average of 2 to 3 hours sleep a night. Now, unless I’m earning around £30 an hour, I’d starve; I’d fall behind with my rent; and, go into debt. In short; I couldn’t afford to work part time.
If home working was an option; and, provided the DWP could trace a pulse; this government would insist disabled people worked from home. A bit like the ‘All Works Test’ – which wasn’t concerned about what you worked at, only that they deemed you fit for work.
Finally, many disabled people are, due to various external barriers, fairly excluded from everyday societal activity – including work. Home working would be yet another way to exclude us from the outside world.
The Unseen
Boy Done Gun
I find it distressing when thinking of the disadvantages a disabled person has in this world, never mind the 'dis' bit before 'abled'.
Its not fair disabled people should be treated differently, there should be options for people like you. I say this because it can't be nice to feel dis connected from the world.
As for sleep, its 4:34 now, and i have my induction at a new job this morning at 10am - 5pm. I will be working 12 hour shift patterns as an insomniac, but i can suffer gladly knowing i have a future plan in my mind.
In this topic i have mostly been refering to the OP, when i haven't i have been interested in the view point, more like asking questions about oppurtunity for people like yourself.
If i came across badly i apologize
Also i was only made aware of tomorrows world like, 2 days ago. Before my time but people seem to look upon it now as a form of comedy
Its not fair disabled people should be treated differently, there should be options for people like you. I say this because it can't be nice to feel dis connected from the world.
As for sleep, its 4:34 now, and i have my induction at a new job this morning at 10am - 5pm. I will be working 12 hour shift patterns as an insomniac, but i can suffer gladly knowing i have a future plan in my mind.
In this topic i have mostly been refering to the OP, when i haven't i have been interested in the view point, more like asking questions about oppurtunity for people like yourself.
If i came across badly i apologize
Also i was only made aware of tomorrows world like, 2 days ago. Before my time but people seem to look upon it now as a form of comedy
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