New Cross (and Deptford), chat and discussion

Discussion in 'London and the South East' started by mod, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. ShiftyBagLady

    ShiftyBagLady Thinks she is a flower to be looked at

    Heh, that's interesting to know. I love the old New Cross Town Hall building, when I first went past there on the top deck of the 53 I saw the naval figures and thought it stuck out like a sore thumb but liked it all the more for that.
    I read a little bit about the area and local shipbuilding history and its connection with the slave trade. I wish I had more time to read about the area because it's bursting at the seams with history. But I'm right lazy :(
  2. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    you can have a quick photo tour (more Deptford than New Cross) here
    ska invita and ShiftyBagLady like this.
  3. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    It actually says Deptford Town Hall on the front. Confusing. Does this mean New Cross is just an offshoot of Deptford in the way that Herne Hill and Tulse Hill are of Brixton? ;)
  4. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    BTW I have since visited the Bird's Nest twice and am glad I did.
    It is a charming place, either to get spangled on a Saturday night or to look dishevelled in the day after a night out.
    Friendly staff, friendly locals and a mysteriously uninviting hostel upstairs
  5. ShiftyBagLady

    ShiftyBagLady Thinks she is a flower to be looked at

    Post code politics alive and well...
  6. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    It says Lewisham Town Hall on the municipal building in Catford, and there's no such thing as Brixton Town Hall (there has never been a Brixton Borough)...

    If you want a more serious answer,

    The town hall (in New Cross) was for the Metropolitan borough of Deptford (which got merged / absorbed into the London Borough of Lewisham in 1965, from what I gather neither council was exactly keen on the idea.)

    If you go back a few centuries, there was Lower Deptford (or Deptford Strand) round the Thames river front - what's now Watergate Street was the main shopping street (as such things were then) and St Nicholas was the parish church. Upper Deptford grew round what's now Deptford Broadway.

    What's now Deptford High Street was at one time a path through the fields between the two, but gradually got developed.

    New Cross is a later development, taking its name from the New Cross Inn, which replaced a previous 'Cross Inn' around the same location. The patch round New Cross Gate was historically 'Hatcham'

    I'd recommend the book "Turning the Tide - The History of Everyday Deptford", Jess Steele (Deptford Forum Publishing, 1993)
    Orang Utan likes this.
  7. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    Also, just in case anyone didn't read the link I posted earlier, the article also links to the wonderful Caroline's Miscellany blog, with this on the Anchor:
    and this on the really weird statue of Peter The Great on the riverside in Deptford:
    Which incidentally links me to mention my mate's blog, in which he writes eloquently about the statue:
  8. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    I was googling Greenwich Town Hall last week to see if I could find some old pic of the interior but it kept flagging up the town hall in Woolwich, which isn't quite as interesting. I didn't know they had municipal borough madness in those days too. I guess it was pre-GLC, whereas ours is post-GLC
  9. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    didn't realise it was pre-war (again, the one in Woolwich was Woolwich Council's town hall until the merger of Woolwich and Greenwich councils in 1965*) more here

    Greenwich Dance website has some interior photos of the Borough Hall bit


    * - except North Woolwich, which was given to Newham. Before they buggered about with it all, Woolwich Borough (and formerly Kent County) was the only authority to have bits on both sides of the Thames.

    and now I really ought to go to bed before I find any more sites with old maps on...
    Orang Utan likes this.
  10. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    Is that your account? If so, you are one hardcore vehicle spotter
  11. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Good bye Deptford as we know it!
    £1bn plan to turn Deptford into the 'Shoreditch of south London'

    Developers behind a £1 billion plan to regenerate Deptford today said they hoped to turn the run down riverside neighbourhood into a thriving “Shoreditch of south London.”

    Ambitious proposals to build 3500 homes, as well as shops and restaurants, on the site of the former historic royal docks where Queen Elizabeth I knighted Sir Francis Drake are due to be submitted to Lewisham council planners within days.

    The 40 acre Convoys Wharf wasteland opposite the gleaming towers of the Docklands financial district has lain derelict for 13 years with no public access to the waterfront.

    The latest masterplan for drawn up by urban designers Sir Terry Farrell on behalf of developers Hutchison Whampoa would create three new parks and convert the sole surviving historic buildings - the Grade II Victorian Olympia warehouse - into a new cultural centre for south east London.

    There would also be a 270 metre long jetty parallel to the riverbank used as an London’s first “island park” in the Thames that will be served by the Clipper riverboat service.

    Sir Terry said: ”This will be a real transformational scheme, I can’t think of any other in London where there will be such a big transforming effect.”

    Sir Terry told the Standard the remarkably rich history of Deptford - it is linked with figures such as Sir Walter Raleigh, Christoper Marlowe and Samuel Pepys - and its growing reputation as a “cultural hub” colonised by artisits gave it huge potential.

    He said: ”You have got Goldsmiths nearby and there are lots creative people living here. I think this is the equivalent of Hoxton or a Shoreditch of the south.”

    Many of the homes at Convoys Wharf will be in three high rise towers of up to 46 storeys with luxury apartments at the top.

    Sir Terry said he thought the scheme would attract more “well off” Londoners to live in Deptford but “I don’t see this as an obvious location for selling off-plan overseas.”

    The scheme, which will create 2000 new jobs, including 1000 in construction, has proved already controversial locally because of what has been described as it its “extraordinary denmsity” and because only 500 of the homes will be affordable.

    Roo Angell, a member of the Deptford Is campaign group said: ”There doesn’t seem to be much balance, is 14 per cent affordable really enough to integrate it into the local area? It is surrounded by a lot of social housing and it could do with more employment space. It should not be just an island with its back turned to Deptford - these proposals do not really feel like part of London.”

    But Sir Terry said: ”There are certain areas of London that really need affordable and others that need an influx of more market housing to support the area. This area has a huge amount of social housing, it’s a question of getting the mix right.”
  12. mod

    mod A modernist

    Well...bye bye to the Deptford I grew up in (in the 70s and 80s admittedly) wouldn't be mourned. Teenagers smoking smack in the stair wells, we were burgled twice within year and mum (dad wasnt around) had a nervous break down, day time house break ins were common place. Police regally attacked trying to arrest burglars. My mates brother was killed outside the youth club on hughes fields estate where we lived. regular pitched battles with the kids from peeps estate etc etc. I witnessed a blokes skull smashed in with a brick. it was a very rough area but saying all that I do have happy memories growing up there (i lived there between 2 and 12 years old) but we really ran wild and were a band of petty criminals really.

    If this space has been derelict for 13 years whats the loss? We (london) desperately need housing.

    The highstreet has changed a lot since my youth and for the better. Some nice little places to eat and shop now and i love the tube carriage cafe. The train station looks good now to.

  13. mod

    mod A modernist

    And going back to my OP. I've fallen in love with New Cross. Love the place. Very surprised by that.

    Very happy SE14 resident here!
    dynamicbaddog likes this.
  14. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    I appreciate what you're saying mod, but house prices being what they are in London means previously "poor" areas are being gentrified to provide housing for the better off - the downside of that is long term residents who pay rent will be priced out of the area and forced to move into the suburbs.

    That's the loss. This isn't redevelopment for the good of the community its (inevitably) gentrification for the good of property developers. I'm not against renovation, and Deptford deserves better, but there's a way of doing right that rarely ever gets done.
    ShiftyBagLady likes this.
  15. mod

    mod A modernist

    Yeah we need a balance. All developments need a mix of high end flats, social housing and shared ownership schemes for people (like me) to get on the ladder. Deptford has many, many council estates scores of them so I personally think this development above can only be a positive.
  16. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    thats true... i dont know the details of the redevlopment, and im not against it per se, but the track record of such developments does make me cautious
  17. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    There is a new bike shop in Deptford, on New Cross Road, called Discount Cycles. :)'
    dynamicbaddog likes this.
  18. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    Deptford was stuffed to the gills with art and community projects today for a special day called If, On A Winter's Day.
    There was loads of weird arty things, poetry, busking etc.
    Best was the Deptford Shanty Crew singing sea shantys but afterwards, to my surprisec longtime poster Rocket no.9 was there to do an off the cuff speech about the history of the rich and long history of minorities in Deptford.
    I should have posted about this earlier in the week, but I only knew about the sea shantys.
    One of the weird arty things was a half-naked young lady wrapped in cling film in a shop window doing some burlesque act. A man in the crowd said to his companion, 'what's wrong with her?' :D
    I heart Deptford!
    tufty79, Anju, Belushi and 2 others like this.
  19. red rose

    red rose Fee-Ai-Esh-See-Oh

    Bah I must've just missed a lot of it. I saw a few bits about the history of Deptford that looked really good but none of the cool stuff you've mentioned.
  20. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

  21. nagapie

    nagapie Well-Known Member

  22. oryx

    oryx Sitting on the bock of the day

    ....and they rediscover and replace the, ahem, interesting taxidermy collection!
  23. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    That got sold off but there's some ace taxidermy on eBay. It won't be the same but I think it is needed.
  24. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    No it won't, but hopefully it will become a nice localish boozer.
  25. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

  26. ddraig

    ddraig dros ben llestri

    Dickheads!! rewriting history for their own profit/piece of mind
  27. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

  28. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    tufty79, red rose and Orang Utan like this.
  29. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    has anyone been to The Duke before?

    dynamicbaddog likes this.
  30. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan razzed up on scrumpy and injustice

    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014

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