Neo Nazis in Germany

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by frogwoman, Aug 25, 2015.

  1. frogwoman

    frogwoman лягушкая женщина

    Over the weekend there were neo-Nazi protests against the building of a new reception centre for refugees

    Nazis have been active recently in Germany with two of them caught pissing on children on a train

    And setting someone's barn on fire

    Fucks sake :mad:
    malatesta32 and Pickman's model like this.
  2. Citizen66

    Citizen66 splash the cistern

    I predict an argument between goldencitrone and, umm, casually red?
    Pickman's model likes this.
  3. frogwoman

    frogwoman лягушкая женщина

  4. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    frogwoman and Citizen66 like this.
  5. westcoast1

    westcoast1 Well-Known Member

    Yeah the Neo Nazis are starting to get confident. Heard German Antifa clashed with them near Dresden.
  6. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

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  7. malatesta32

    malatesta32 Not Serb. No, Really!

    in my research, i found the that german antifa/black bloc/BZs have been up against serious nazi violence with exploding cars, mass incursions, street battles etc... and perhaps some fatalities. over here, its positivly serene in comparison.
  8. westcoast1

    westcoast1 Well-Known Member

    Yeah I've met some German Antifa they don't mess about.
    Greebo likes this.
  9. DaveCinzano


    One is minded of the 'National Socialist Underground' murders (2000-2007), failure of police initially to connect them together (or even to identify them as politically-motivated), the emergence subsequently of evidence to suggest the perpetrators and their accomplices were known to police, intelligence and/or security organisations, and the ongoing delays to the prosecution of Beate Zschäpe and others.

    Pre-NSU exposure story on 'Doner Murders':

    pocketscience likes this.
  10. DaveCinzano


    Re the above:

    I just noticed that one of the prosecution witnesses is Carsten Szczepanski. Szczepanski was a German neo-nazi who was turned by the state after his arrest for attempted murder. He worked as an informer from 1994 until 2000. At least as early as 1998 Szczepanski provided intelligence on defendant Beate Zschäpe and her dead NSU comrades Uwe Mundlos and Uwe Böhnhardt, as confirmed by intelligence documents put before the court. And yet... Within two years, they were setting off on a terroristic bloodbath which the state did not even acknowledge as politically-motivated murder until more than a decade later.

    I think it is worth raking over some of this stuff.

    In his (admittedly skewed) Combat 18 book, White Riot, Nick Lowles (formerly of Searchlight, latterly HOPE Not Hate) states that:

    “The Sargents' key international supporter aside from Harold Covington was the German nazi Carsten Szczepanski. In the autumn of 2000, Szczepanski admitted to being a police informer, having been recruited by the internal security service [Verfassungsschutz] when on remand for the attempted murder of a Nigerian immigrant. During the C18 split [i.e. late 1996 onwards], Szczepanski, codenamed Piato, distributed pro-Sargent material amongst German nazis. He was later to form the National Revolutionary Cells [Nationalrevolutionären Zellen], a proto-terrorist group that openly advocated violence.” (p279, 2014 Milo Books edition.)​

    An English language article on the WSWS website by Lena Sokoll (based on Rolf Gössner's 2003 book about the use of informants and provocateurs by the Brandenburg intelligence service Geheime Informanten: V-Leute des Verfassungsschutzes – Kriminelle im Dienst des Staates) fleshes things out a little more:

    “...Szczepanski had already gained a reputation as a neo-Nazi at the beginning of the 1990s. He was part of the right-wing extremist skinhead milieu and had contact with the leadership of the National Front. He was also instrumental in establishing an offshoot of the Ku Klux Klan in Germany.

    “In 1992, police raided an apartment rented by Szczepanski and found four pipe bombs, explosive material and detonators. The police then undertook a preliminary inquiry on the suspicion that he was involved in founding a terrorist organisation. However, Szczepanski was never charged or sentenced for these crimes—indicating that he was at this point already being employed and receiving cover from the intelligence service.

    “According to the Brandenburg intelligence service, it first began to work with Szczepanski in 1994, after he had begun a long prison sentence for attempting to murder a Nigerian, Steve Erenhi. Despite the gravity of his crime, Szczepanski was already a free man in 1997, and renewed his activities in the neo-fascist milieu as V-man ‘Piato.’”

    More detail comes from a 2002 StateWatch article, which notes:

    “Szczepanski had contact with Federal Crime Police Office (BKA) in the early 1990s and provided information on the German Ku-Klux-Klan during interrogations. He was released early from prison on the order of the VS [i.e. the regional agency, Verfassungsschutz] and employed by them for the next six years, earning around 70,000 DM (£23,500). It later became known that Szczepanski had a leading role with the [well-established neo-nazi party] NPD in Berlin-Brandenburg as well as with the Nationalrevolutionären Zellen (National Revolutionary Cells) and Blood & Honour, and that he spent those years building up far-right organisations in the region.”

    It should also be noted that Szczepanski was at the time he was covertly working for the German secret state, he was publicly identified as a key figure in the neo-nazi networks (e.g., see this 1996 article from the ADL).

    Meanwhile, I see that connections between NSU and Combat 18 have been made in some German quarters (eg AntifaInfoblatt).

    So a German state asset (Szczepanski) was used to align with British state assets (Charlie and/or Steve Sargent) in their feud with other British state assets (Will Browning and/or Darren Wells) at a time when the organisation subject to this dispute - itself widely suspected of having been a state-organised/supported honeytrap - was in the process of building international links, notably in Scandinavia and eastern Europe, and plotting and executing transnational terrorist plots, all whilst he engaged with (and informed upon) right-wing cadres who would subsequently go on to commit ten murders (and one attempted), more than a dozen bank robberies, and at least two bombings...
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
  11. dylanredefined

    dylanredefined Not a house elf a tiger

    How the fuck can the Germans still have Nazis? The last time they were in charge the country was wrecked and divided into 2 for 50 years and everyone in Europe would happily do it all again if they even looked like coming back.
    Cheshire Katz and spitfire like this.
  12. likesfish

    likesfish an angry pretend soldier shooting at seagulls

    Isreal has nazis and russia :eek:stupid evil crosses all frontiers:facepalm:
    Nylock, dylanredefined and camouflage like this.
  13. ItWillNeverWork

    ItWillNeverWork Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.

    Israel has Nazis and Russia, stupid; evil crosses all frontiers.
    Israel has Nazis and Russia. Stupid evil crosses all frontiers.
    Israel has Nazis, and Russia is stupid. Evil crosses all frontiers.
    Israel has Nazis, and Russia, and stupid evil. It crosses all frontiers.
  14. Jimmy Turr

    Jimmy Turr Banned Banned

    They're already back but they're a severe nuisance rather than a threat to the existing order. Like the left, they're merely a niche market in an ocean of consumer choice.
    greenfield likes this.
  15. dylanredefined

    dylanredefined Not a house elf a tiger

    Still if anyone should have zero tolerance it should be Germany not, talking legislation rather everyone looking at you in horror for even thinking it is a good idea.
  16. hot air baboon

    hot air baboon Well-Known Member

    ...quite a few existed in stasis ( no pun intended ) in East Germany then became thawed out after re-unification like The Thing...then there were always just-about-legal West German parties like the Socialist Reich Party, NDP & Republikaners...
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  17. moonstomp

    moonstomp Well-Known Member

  18. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    NPD (originally DRP) were around from '50-onward, despite being banned and pursued by state and federal intelligence services in West Germany. "Denazification" in the Allied zone was a bust, so loads of party-members ended up in state employment. Nazism never went away, it just went underground.
  19. dylanredefined

    dylanredefined Not a house elf a tiger

    While I can sort of understand people who grew up in the era of Nazism clinging to the past. Anyone growing up in post war world let alone Germany thinking it is a good idea is baffling to me.
    While the symbols are pretty much going to be seen as evil in the west for many years to come (which of course has a weird attractiveness of its own)
    As an idea it has nothing going for it real life proved it wrong on everything.
  20. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    It is (same as ever, really) about being able to blame someone else for your own shortcomings. The NPD (ironically) blamed a lot of stuff on ethnic Germans - "they come here, steal our jobs" etc - and then later on Turks and other gastarbeiter. Some people love to have a scapegoat.
  21. Jimmy Turr

    Jimmy Turr Banned Banned

    [QUOTE="dylanredefined, post: 14209013
    As an idea it has nothing going for it real life proved it wrong on everything.[/QUOTE]

    When has this ever stopped anybody?
    likesfish likes this.
  22. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato Grateful for what I have.

    There appears to be much more going on in Germany than is being reported in the press. I was speaking to someone in Munich last night, Merkel's approval ratings are dropping like a stone. Resentment is increasing greatly in 'ordinary', i.e. not aligned to any extremist party, they feel that Merkel's largesse was not with the consent of the people, and in Munich there is pressure on housing and medical facilities. It was also reported (other than the report of a single person, I have no way of verifying
    this) that there has been a deal of criminality on the part of the refugees, with several rapes reported.

    This is prime breeding territory for the far right.
  23. Idris2002

    Idris2002 Well, there goes the frying pan theory.

    On the other hand, I've heard stories of massive overcrowding in refugee accomodation.

    The crisis last summer took the whole continent by surprise, so they've had to improvise on the hoof. But this was an occasion when the Merk's steady as she goes leadership style was inadequate and something more attuned to the situation was needed.

    As for Munich, well one factor there is that property prices and rents have been horrendous for years anyway.
  24. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato Grateful for what I have.

    Aye, and as I said, it is a report by one person.
  25. CNT36

    CNT36 Not carbon nano tubes

    Pegida are growing again. There are Neo-Nazis involved and the leaders have links to alsorts of fuck. pegida - Google Search
    frogwoman likes this.
  26. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Strangely enough (he wrote sarcastically) that resentment was minimal until Springer Media and a handful of pols started a concerted whinge-a-thon back in mid-September, and the rest of the media circulated it 24/7.
    As for Munich, the strain on resources is caused by geography, just as resources were strained in '89 - by the Austro-German border being a prime crossing site.
  27. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    Zschäpe's trial resumes this Tuesday and she's announced that she's finally going to break her silence, so things could finally get interesting after 2 and a half years.
    Or it could end up being another one of her delaying tactics.
    Or, If she does start singing and gets on one about the Verfassungsschutz, I think we could well be in for one of those nasty custodial fatal stair case accidents things.
    DaveCinzano likes this.
  28. frogwoman

    frogwoman лягушкая женщина

  29. DaveCinzano


    Things have indeed taken an interesting turn at the trial of Beate Zschäpe:

    Worth repeating:

    German woman on trial for Neo-nazi murders breaks silence over attacks
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  30. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    The general consensus seems to be that she's bullshitting to get her sentence reduced.
    Here statements don't add with certain evidence and certainly not with her decision to stubbornly stay silent for years.
    ...and she asks for the families of the victims to accept her apologies for being "morally guilty"... after dragging it out for ages. Horrible woman.
    Hopfully the prosecution grill the fuck out of her now.
    gawkrodger, frogwoman and DaveCinzano like this.

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