Nazis invited to the Palace

[Edie]

Contemptuous and lazy.

It don't seem that to me It's true. If people are stupid enough to take the BNPs glib answers as true and vote for them then the BNP will get increasing power and increasingly be in Government and get to meet the queen etc. Isn't this what he meant?

 

[butchersapron]

Its says that peope like him already have the answer and it's the electorates duty to get it right and work towards them.

The Solution

After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

 

[Edie]

Its says that peope like him already have the answer and it's the electorates duty to get it right and work towards them.

Well yes. I suppose it does.

 

[Nigel]

What a deeply incisive analysis.

Has it ever occurred to you, or the barrel of monkeys you're aligned with politically, that shouting "Nazi" at people who aren't visibly Nazi, and who in many cases have managed to cover up their neo-Nazi pasts successfully, makes you look stupid?
Attack them on contemporary issues and you might have a chance of winning hearts and minds.


Yes, fascism, NOT Nazism. The two ARE NOT synonymous, except perhaps in the minds of fools.

Do you think that shouting "Nazi" does anything worth a damn in actually stopping the BNP either spreading their message or in shifting the political discourse in the UK toward acceptance of their message as "mainstream"? I don't. It hasn't worked for at least the last ten years, as I'm sure you well know.

Before I say this I agree that a bunch of middle class people, mostly students whose voices have'nt appeard to have broken yet screeching Nazi is counter productive.
However,would you consider the Political Soldier Wing and/or Third Postionism not to incorporate elements of National Socialism?

I think you said that the defining line for Fascism was the Corporate State, what would you consider the defining line on National Socialism?

 

[butchersapron]

Do shut up.

 

[Nigel]

Do shut up.

Don't you think the question is relevent to the thread then?

 

[Nigel]

Would you consider National Socialist ideologies only to be influenced by German political movements and theorists around and in the forming of NSDAP.

How different are may of the 'left face' ideas within the BNP today; The people who used to be labour(sic) sloganism, to say Strasserite influenced ideas put across by the National Front publications such as Britain First in the 1970's

 

[ViolentPanda]

It don't seem that to me It's true. If people are stupid enough to take the BNPs glib answers as true and vote for them then the BNP will get increasing power and increasingly be in Government and get to meet the queen etc. Isn't this what he meant?

It's contemptuous because he assumes that his answer is the right one, and lazy because he assumes that he knows how people outside of his orbit are thinking.
You see, I don't think that there's an issue of people being "stupid enough" to vote for the BNP, but I do think there's an issue with people being desperate enough for a change that they'll vote outside of their usual "comfort zone" or consider solutions that would never normally occur or appeal to them, and if Michael White can't grasp that then he himself is part of "the problem", because all he's doing is saying "vote for more of the same on the off-chance that things get better".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Before I say this I agree that a bunch of middle class people, mostly students whose voices have'nt appeard to have broken yet screeching Nazi is counter productive.
However,would you consider the Political Soldier Wing and/or Third Postionism not to incorporate elements of National Socialism?

No, because although we can make educated guesses at what philosophical antecedents those ideologies had, we can't be sure whether the elements that they share with national socialism come from national socialism itself, or from national socialism's ideological forebears, and in the absence of them marching about in regalia...

I think you said that the defining line for Fascism was the Corporate State, what would you consider the defining line on National Socialism?

For national socialism as a political ideology, or for national socialism, the dominant set of power relations in the Third Reich?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't you think the question is relevent to the thread then?

Not really, considering that none of the BNP were members of the NSDAP.

 

[Nigel]

As an Ideology as a tool to build political movements!

 

[Nigel]

Not really, considering that none of the BNP were members of the NSDAP.

Tyndall and co. were always very keen in dressing up in neo-nazi uniforms and formed much of their politics and tactics upon German National Socialism. Are you saying that they didn't revere the Furhrer.

Political Soldier wing of NF is heavily influenced by Strasserism.

 

[Nigel]

Do you not think that if the BNP succeed in courting the middle classes and gain respectability among a reasonable percentage of the electorate they are not going return to trying to regain the streets?

 

[ViolentPanda]

As an Ideology as a tool to build political movements!

The use of mythology.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tyndall and co. were always very keen in dressing up in neo-nazi uniforms and formed much of their politics and tactics upon German National Socialism. Are you saying that they didn't revere the Furhrer.

No, I'm saying that regardless of them wearing WW2-surplus SS regalia, having paintings of Hitler on their walls, and believing that the flag of the Third Reich was a suitable wall hanging, they weren't members of the NSDAP, and that the tactics that they drew from national socialism were mostly the same tactics that national socialism drew from, variously, the Freikorps, the Spartacists and just about every other revolutionary or counter-revolutionary organisation in europe at the time. Let's face it, what were Kahr and Hitlers' putsches if not attempt to mimic the Spartacist attempt to "capture" Berlin?

Political Soldier wing of NF is heavily influenced by Strasserism.

And...?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you not think that if the BNP succeed in courting the middle classes and gain respectability among a reasonable percentage of the electorate they are not going return to trying to regain the streets?

I "think" that they'll give their flirtation with respectability a fair go, and keep their heads down. As I've said before, I'm not particularly worried about the BNP as a political force so much as I'm worried that the presence of the BNP in the mainstream political spectrum is having the effect of legitimising right-wing politics. It may (currently) be doing this in a rather creeping and slow manner, but the effect is already there.
As for the BNP or any of their rival organisations "regaining the streets", the BNP have kept a lid on this (and, allegedly, on some of their rivals) because it doesn't serve their current purpose, and they know that any overt "street actions" that can be tied to them play into the hands of those who oppose them. I'm not saying that they've discarded street-fighting and all that goes with it, but they know that the political climate at the moment isn't conducive to what worked 20 or 30 or 60 or 70 years ago, and that the whole "seizure of power" schtick doesn't play like it did back between the wars or in the 1970s.

 

[trevhagl]

I wonder how many members Griffin gets there? Sounds like prime recruiting ground..

 

[wreckhead]

Looks like Griffin's not going after all, didn't want to "embarrass" Her Maj... how very nice of him.

 

[treelover]

Griffin was interviewed on Sky news earlier, a fairly long package, very confident, self-assured, sounded like Old Labour at times, even normal, as politicians can be, till the 'racial question' came in, that is....

 

[butchersapron]

Hurrah! The Queen is saved! Now to save democracy!

 

[JHE]

Looks like Griffin's not going after all...

Phew! Udo Erasmus and the Daily Mail will be greatly relieved!

Mind you, there is still Barnbrook, or whatever he's called, Griffin's inarticulate sidekick from the GLA... but it's all such a non-event. He'll have a couple of cucumber sandwiches, a cup of tea and stand around trying not to look bored. Perhaps he'll have a quick chat about the weather with a junior Nigerian diplomat or with Mrs Stokes, who's been invited because she has helped make her Cotswold village look so very pretty for the past 30 years.

In the unlikely event of Barnbrook and Mrs Windsor having a conversation, it will be about something as innocuous as gardening. "I always think horse manure is the best, don't you, Mr Barns?" "Yes, Maam."

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hurrah! The Queen is saved! Now to save democracy!

Personally, and maybe I'm just being a crabby old fart, I'd have thought it would have been more appropriate to save democracy first, if we're going to stick with it, and then worry about who gets invited to the Palace gardens.

 

[Azrael]

Griffin was interviewed on Sky news earlier, a fairly long package, very confident, self-assured, sounded like Old Labour at times, even normal, as politicians can be, till the 'racial question' came in, that is....

Of course. Has any interviewer asked him if he'd support a socialist platform if it got him forced repatriation? If not, I wish they would.