Nazi "stealth fighter" recreated

[ViolentPanda]

It's a matter of production capacity. They simply couldn't match the production capacity of the US and Russia combined - no matter how many fancy toys they made.

And of access to raw materials, of course, hence the careful groundwork laid for Buna rubber and synthetic petroleum products.

 

[editor]

You can see blueprints of the plane here: http://channel.nationalgeographic.c...tealth-fighter-3942/Overview24#tab-blueprints

(Click: "view photos")

 

[teuchter]

Made primarily of wood

 

[teuchter]

You can see blueprints of the plane here: http://channel.nationalgeographic.c...tealth-fighter-3942/Overview24#tab-blueprints

(Click: "view photos")

Some very cool drawings there...

 

[david dissadent]

From Wikipedia

In an experiment to determine the stealth characteristics of the design, Northrop-Grumman built a full-size reproduction of the V3 incorporating a duplicate glue mixture in the nose section. After an expenditure of about US$250,000 and 2,500 man-hours Northrop's Ho-229 reproduction was tested at the company's classified radar cross-section (RCS) test range at Tejon, California, where it was placed on a 15-meter (50 ft) articulating pole and exposed to electromagnetic energy sources from various angles, duplicating the same three frequences used by the Chain Home radar network of the British in the early 1940s. RCS testing showed that an Ho 229 approaching the English Coast from France flying at 885 km/h (550 mph) at 15 - 30 meter (50 - 100 ft) above the water would not have been visible to Chain Home radar, while a Bf 109 or Fw 190 was visible up to 129 km (80 miles) away.[1]
With testing complete, the reproduction was donated by Northrop-Grumman to the San Diego Air and Space Museum, while the TV special aired on June 28, 2009 on the National Geographic Channel.[1][2]

This is so damned funny. So this plane flying at 550mph at 30 m above the sealevel? Jesus that would make an interesting site, well an instresting mark on the not so white cliffs of dover about 2 minutes later. But also a FW129 was visible to radar 129 km away when it was 30 m above the sea surface?


I think there is some bullshit afoot.


A bomber with a 1000 lb bomb bay aint gonna win WWII......

 

[cybertect]

Made primarily of wood

Metals were getting scarce in Germany by 1944.

 

[david dissadent]

Metals were getting scarce in Germany by 1944.

One has to question how wood would have handed the adiabatic heating of the air infront of it that those speeds generate (ram pressure). Most people are familiar with thinking of this as 'friction' generated heat.

 

[DotCommunist]

didn't the Mosquito have plywood and balsa used for parts of it's construction?

All metal aircraft were a 30s thing iirc

 

[JimW]

It would have never taken off from the conveyor belt

 

[mattie]

didn't the Mosquito have plywood and balsa used for parts of it's construction?

All metal aircraft were a 30s thing iirc

Yep, significantly lower speeds than this beasty though.

 

[Crispy]

So a metal spaceframed 'fuselage' section and wooden wings then.

 

[cybertect]

didn't the Mosquito have plywood and balsa used for parts of it's construction?

Yup. Spruce and balsa plywood monocoque airframe. That it wasn't using the same materials as other aircraft helped get the Mosquito into production.

 

[teuchter]

So a metal spaceframed 'fuselage' section and wooden wings then.

That's what it looks like from the drawings.





Did anyone watch James May on BBC2 going into space (nearly) last night by the way?

 

[cybertect]

I saw it last week

 

[London_Calling]

So hang on, it's steath and it's flying low enough to take the wheelhouse off a fishing boat? Plus, the Germans didn't have the RADAR technology to be able to test its merits.


I think I'l dismiss the 'stealth' part as Northrop-Grumman/journalistic nonsense. It was about outrunning the RAF, imo.

 

[Pingu]

and looking cool

it is a good job taht WW2 wasnt decided by who had the coolest kit tbh cos we would have had our arses kicked

 

[Idaho]

Yes... That's why invading Russia was a mistake. The US would have stayed out of it Japan hadn't wanted its empire.

There is a fairly respectable historical belief that the US wanted a war with Japan and was actively provoking it into attacking.

 

[likesfish]

for all of the legends of Nazi efficiency
Britain domestically by 1942 was out producing Germany with regard to weapons manufacturing.
we even sent convoys of kit to Russia

Nazi's look good produce some clever toys.
but basically crap and evil

 

[ohmyliver]

yeah, well you have to hand it to the Nazis. They had a certain style when it came to uniform and equipment.

Well, their uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss you know.

 

[ohmyliver]

for all of the legends of Nazi efficiency
Britain domestically by 1942 was out producing Germany with regard to weapons manufacturing.
we even sent convoys of kit to Russia

Nazi's look good produce some clever toys.
but basically crap and evil

and also by the time it could have gone into mass production Nazi Germany was suffering from resource shortages, and had a lot of key industrial sites bombed to buggery by the US and UK air forces. So I doubt it would have much effect on the outcome of the war.

my favourite Nazi weapon was the Elephant, an awesome tank destroyer on paper, almost invulnerable to tanks, but unreliable, and vulnerable to and easily destroyed by Soviet infantry. Sums up the tech-arrogance of the Nazis perfectly.

 

[cybertect]

my favourite Nazi weapon was the Elephant

Designed by Ferdinand Porsche, you know

 

[ohmyliver]

Designed by Ferdinand Porsche, you know

I know now

 

[Idris2002]

The Amerika Bomber of Dr. Sanger, intended to deliver a 10,000 kg bomb on New York or similar targets, was pretty mental as well:

http://www.luft46.com/misc/sanger.html

Sanger's basic concept of an 'atmosphere skipper' intercontinental bomber aircraft - one that would 'skip' over the edge of the atmosphere as a stone skips over the water as you skim it - was recycled after the way as the Dyno-Soar project of the USAF:

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/dynasoar.htm

 

[theCIA]

you wouldve thought it will fly quite well though

seeing as these things are so good in the air.

 

[IMR]

They had long wave radar and that was the main means on long range detection back then. Is there any evidence this was a stealth design and not merely an aerodynamic inovation that co-incidently looks like a modern stealth design?

The Nazis did have some knowledge of materials which didn't reflect a lot of radar waves. These were applied to things such as submarine coning towers iirc.

But they had no idea of stealth geometry, which was first developed by Russian scientists during the cold war.

 

[david dissadent]

you wouldve thought it will fly quite well though

seeing as these things are so good in the air.

That has a verticle tail on the edge of the wings.

 

[mauvais]

The one in the OP would have the same ordnance as a V-2 rocket. I guess it wouldn't be that manoeuvrable - you wouldn't want to dogfight in a B-2 bomber - so it'd be useful as a night bomber but not that much else.

There was already nothing that could be done about the V-2 apart from destroying them on the ground, so I don't think it would have changed that much at all.

 

[theCIA]

That has a verticle tail on the edge of the wings.

ya but look at this one. also, take your normal hanglider, they havnt got vertical tips, i guess they rely heavily on low CoG to keep them stable, which that nazi plane would also have? dunno, what do you think?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

The one in the OP would have the same ordnance as a V-2 rocket. I guess it wouldn't be that manoeuvrable - you wouldn't want to dogfight in a B-2 bomber - so it'd be useful as a night bomber but not that much else.

There was already nothing that could be done about the V-2 apart from destroying them on the ground, so I don't think it would have changed that much at all.

In terms of £/ton of ordinance delivered you'd probably be onto a winner.

 

[david dissadent]

ya but look at this one. also, take your normal hanglider, they havnt got vertical tips, i guess they rely heavily on low CoG to keep them stable, which that nazi plane would also have? dunno, what do you think?

Funnily enough the designers were originaly glider designers. From what I know tailess designs were normally aimed at reducing drag, other than stability a big chunk of metal sticking out of a plane is a real load of aerodynamic drag. I cannot think of any comercial plane without a verticle stabiliser and virtualy no millitary ones until fly by wire and computers. The fact that a flying wing flies is no shock but a model flying wing is no real risk to life. That model would probibly not cope too well with any yaw that developed during the flight.

I think that this was almost certainly developed as a night bomber which was aimed at flying high, the TV shows waffle about 30m above the sea is insane. Those speeds and altitude would be a headache for a IDS Tornado, a purpose built aircraft to speed along the ground, one of the few that can do it. The aerodynamics are pretty scary. And at 30m above sea level your invisible to radar because until a few miles away your below the f*cking horizon! A Sopwith Camel would have been 'stealth' in those conditions. There would have been radar advantages to the lack of tail and conventional body from some angles. But from head on my guess is it would have lit up like a christmas tree with those jet blades spinning away.

I am hugely dubious about the use of wood at those proposed speeds as well.

The wiki article on stealth gives a good idea of the technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology

I think this was more like a US X series aircraft, hugely innovative but only usefull as a prototype for new technologies and ideas.