Nazi Parade in Ohio Descends into Violence

[Streathamite]

Unlike Pbman, who at all times needs an English translator, I don't feel the need to translate for JC2.

v true! JC ain't nuffink if not articulate

 

[Streathamite]

I think your Conservative voters are closer to republicans. The BNP more resembles the Italian fascists and other such European parties than any mainstream US party.

used to be the case. fact is, the near-terminal collapse of said Tories has helped push a lot of the Daily mail types toward the BNP. that and their image-makeover

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

BTW: this is the man you all are accusing of being a racist on the side of Nazi's:

http://fordformayor.com/biography.html

Mayor Ford created the Toledo Youth Commission, the lead abatement program, the medication education for the elderly program, the Toledo curfew law, and the drug paraphernalia law. He also authored the anti-discrimination ordinance for caregivers to AIDS victims, the fetal alcohol syndrome warning notice ordinance, the state foster care parent right-to-know law, and the state foster care worker training law.

Mayor Ford signed Toledo’s smoking ban into law, the first big city in Ohio to do so. Mayor Ford was recognized as Ohio Tobacco Control Champion of the Year in February 2004 and as Mayor, Jack Ford signed the $450 million clean water consent decree and ended the twenty-year struggle with the federal court over police and fire hiring. He settled the seven-year litigation on wheelchair accessible sidewalk ramps throughout the City of Toledo.

In January 2001, Mayor Ford started the CareNet health care program, a health care access corporation for non-insured poor and working citizens that currently provides health coverage to 2500 Lucas County residents who otherwise were ineligible for any healthcare...

 

[Poi E]

BTW: this is the man you all are accusing of being a racist on the side of Nazi's:

http://fordformayor.com/biography.html

That's sweeping. Not "all of us" have accused that gent of being a racists on the side of Nazis. His judgement is questionable, though.

 

[nino_savatte]

BTW: this is the man you all are accusing of being a racist on the side of Nazi's:

http://fordformayor.com/biography.html

That may well be the case but his judgement in this instance is decidedly flawed.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I see his point perfectly well. Unlike Pbman, who at all times needs an English translator, I don't feel the need to translate for JC2.

I did actually know what he was saying. I thought it was bollocks, however, and a more polite way of saying that is to ask for further clarification.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I see his point perfectly well. Unlike Pbman, who at all times needs an English translator, I don't feel the need to translate for JC2.

Fridge, let me put it this way.

Let's say you have a giant acne boil on your nose.

As you're walking down the street, you see a guy approaching with a giant acne boil on his nose.

You point at the guy and laugh, and say: "Look: that guy has a giant acne boil on his nose!"

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

BTW: this is the man you all are accusing of being a racist on the side of Nazi's:

http://fordformayor.com/biography.html

He sounds like the mayor of Vancouver.

 

[spring-peeper]

Isn't it up to the municipality to issue a permit to hold a parade?

It is where I live.

So, it is the municipality who ok's the parade route. It should the municipality that you should be upset at, not the whole country, imo.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Isn't it up to the municipality to issue a permit to hold a parade?

It is where I live.

So, it is the municipality who ok's the parade route. It should the municipality that you should be upset at, not the whole country, imo.

It's my understanding that they didn't need a permit because they stayed on the sidewalk and there were less than 2 dozen of them.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Fridge, let me put it this way.

Let's say you have a giant acne boil on your nose.

As you're walking down the street, you see a guy approaching with a giant acne boil on his nose.

You point at the guy and laugh, and say: "Look: that guy has a giant acne boil on his nose!"

I dont underst... no, I'll just say "bollocks" this time.

Your analogy indicates that you seem to think this thread is about hypocritically laughing at or criticising the US as a whole. Doubtless there are some people who do that sort of thing; I was taking the piss out of one earlier on today. I don't see this thread as being based on that at all. It's often a surprise to people that there are actually real Nazis (not "omg u nazi"s) in the US and given the numerous threads about protest in the UK, a bit of comparison is interesting. There are also points about what sort of protest/demonstration is permitted by law and why that is.

You're not mears; you're not contractually obliged to do the "all america all the time" thing.

You're also displaying a complete lack of information about the status of marches in the UK, suggesting that "(we) try to control or silence them" in some way that is different to what happens in the US, which is just shite; cops regularly protect marchers who are unpopular where they're marching or with counter-demonstrators, and as if "we" on Urban have anything to do with that anyway.

 

[spring-peeper]

It's my understanding that they didn't need a permit because they stayed on the sidewalk and there were less than 2 dozen of them.

Surely the level of government that is in control of the roads are the ones making the decision. There are issues of traffic flow, safety of citizens etc.

OK, I'm from Canada, so things of course would be different here, but take the example of protest line of tractors convoying up to Ottawa.

They had to get permission from the provincial government and police to clog up the provincial highways and the City of Ottawa's permission to use the municipal roads on the was to parliment hill.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Surely the level of government that is in control of the roads are the ones making the decision. There are issues of traffic flow, safety of citizens etc.

OK, I'm from Canada, so things of course would be different here, but take the example of protest line of tractors convoying up to Ottawa.

They had to get permission from the provincial government and police to clog up the provincial highways and the City of Ottawa's permission to use the municipal roads on the was to parliment hill.

It's probably governed by city ordinance. Road rules probably wouldn't apply as they arn't actually using the road. I'm betting it depends on how the city ordinance is written. They may have defined "parade" as consisting of more than 24 people. In that case, there wouldn't be anything the city could do as they are doing something perfectly legal, i.e. walking on the sidewalk.

 

[spring-peeper]

It's probably governed by city ordinance. Road rules probably wouldn't apply as they arn't actually using the road. I'm betting it depends on how the city ordinance is written. They may have defined "parade" as consisting of more than 24 people. In that case, there wouldn't be anything the city could do as they are doing something perfectly legal, i.e. walking on the sidewalk.

I'm sorry - I just got this mental image of a class of 25 kindergarden kids needing a permit to walk to the park. Totally off-topic of course, but it amused me.

If we go with the idea that the city ok's the route, then surely they would have enough sense not to allow them into areas that will cause racial tensions.

Never mind, I've met some of my municipal councillors and employees - they wouldn't have enough common sense to figure it out.

meh! Hopefully next time they (the Ohio bunch) think before signing the protest permit.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

meh! Hopefully next time they (the Ohio bunch) think before signing the protest permit.

The point was that no permit was involved because the group didn't fit the definition for needing a permit:

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/5104645/detail.html

Mayor Jack Ford said there was little the city could do to stop the supremacist group because they did not apply for a parade permit and instead planned to walk along sidewalks.

"They do have a right to walk on the Toledo sidewalks," said Ford, who at one point confronted leaders of the mob and tried to settle them down...

And yes, municipal employees can be stupid. I think that largely explains why they think I'm a pain in the ass.

 

[Streathamite]

Then I suppose that fascism is just more popular on your side of the atlantic.

if you mean britain, how on earth did you work that one out?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

if you mean britain, how on earth did you work that one out?

The BNP runs in elections, and has elected politicians.

 

[Streathamite]

It shows that such phenomena aren't limited to the US.

but the ulster loonies (on BOTH sides, and I am not gonna be drawn into partisanship on THAT one) are nothing to do with fascism, whatever their myriad other flaws. in fact, the only thing they have in common with the BNP are
a)moronic teenage hoolies at the New Den singing 'no surrender to the IRA'
and
b) they..err....go on marches.
And the NY firemen do the latter too!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

but the ulster loonies (on BOTH sides, and I am not gonna be drawn into partisanship on THAT one) are nothing to do with fascism, whatever their myriad other flaws. in fact, the only thing they have in common with the BNP are
a)moronic teenage hoolies at the New Den singing 'no surrender to the IRA'
and
b) they..err....go on marches.
And the NY firemen do the latter too!

The pictures of the Orangemen marching though the catholic sections that I've seen seem to show men past their teenage years.

 

[Streathamite]

The BNP runs in elections, and has elected politicians.

a tiny handful, at the lowest level of democracy (USA nearest equivalent would be a small remote town's council, and how do you KNOW there aren't some equally unsavoury types elected somewhere in NA at that level?) where dozens of votes sway the issue, due to laughable turnout levels, and as a result of a 20 year agent provocateur campaign. and - rest assured - it won't last. They've peaked
and the main plank of their campaign, and the hinge to their putative success, is 'we are not nazis'.
Also, Nazisa and white supremacists are perfectly at liberty to run at that level in the US, and - for all I know - Canada.

 

[Streathamite]

The pictures of the Orangemen marching though the catholic sections that I've seen seem to show men past their teenage years.

<deep weary sigh>
yes, Johnny, but the teenage football hooligans at Millwall FC and the Orangemen are two totally different groups of people.
I was using two totally different sources of analogy that have nothing to do with each other.
Appreciate you may not know who or where Millwall are, but do keep UP!!!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

<deep weary sigh>
yes, Johnny, but the teenage football hooligans at Millwall FC and the Orangemen are two totally different groups of people.
I was using two totally different sources of analogy that have nothing to do with each other.
Appreciate you may not know who or where Millwall are, but do keep UP!!!

Whatever.

My point is that you have racist thugs who parade through the areas of the people they hate, just like they do in the US.

So you don't actually smell like a rose, you see.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

And who says we do?

Should people stop posting stuff about marches in the UK, because the US doesn't smell like roses either?

 

[vimto]

Fridge, let me put it this way.

Let's say you have a giant acne boil on your nose.

As you're walking down the street, you see a guy approaching with a giant acne boil on his nose.

You point at the guy and laugh, and say: "Look: that guy has a giant acne boil on his nose!"

Yeah and you still tell lies about who you are Johnny

By fuck I've seen you flip flop from being a Lawyer to being nothing more than an excuse for the Nazi party of the USA.

Keith, pbman and yerself has had a right good laugh on these boards...lets see what happens next oh coffee coloured one

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

And who says we do?

Should people stop posting stuff about marches in the UK, because the US doesn't smell like roses either?

Sure, go ahead; just don't gloat too much, since the same thing is happening down your street too.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

And this "gloating". Where's that then?

 

[nino_savatte]

The BNP runs in elections, and has elected politicians.

The BNP has elected politicians on a local government level and even then, it's electoral success is minimal if not questionable. It has no MPs at Westminster and on its current form, it is unlikely to achieve this sort of success.

 

[nino_savatte]

Sure, go ahead; just don't gloat too much, since the same thing is happening down your street too.

Well, it isn't: openly racist and Nazi parties are not allowed to march in areas where there are large groups of ethnic minorities. It would appear you have missed this very fundamental point for reasons known only to yourself. If you are talking about NI, that is a somewhat different matter and I don't wish to get into an argument on the minutae of the British occupation of Ireland, the gerrymandering and the dirty tricks.

 

[Streathamite]

Whatever.

My point is that you have racist thugs who parade through the areas of the people they hate, just like they do in the US.

So you don't actually smell like a rose, you see.

so please explain precisely what is the connection between the 300-year old nightmare in norn ireland, and fascism.
and who the FUCK is saying we do?
johnny, can you not honestly do better than 'well you're not so hot yourself'?
my 8-year old nephew is more intellectually sophisticated than that!
(and as a half-argentinian, he has a fairly unique perspective on fascism!)

 

[Streathamite]

Sure, go ahead; just don't gloat too much, since the same thing is happening down your street too.

like fridge said, what gloating?
and why the hypersensitivity?