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National Shop Stewards Network Conference 2009

NSSP is indeed a typo. You know what I mean!!

I can only speak about Unite as that is the union I am a member of. I can say that SWP membership in Unite is very small to the point of being insignificant.
It still concerns me that the SWP still is seeking an alternative to NSSN with RTW rather than being non secterian, in the spirit of their open letter and getting involved with the NSSN.
 
I suspect the SWP aren't getting involved because they see the NSSN as being the SPs project. This is obviously a sectarian reason not to get involved.

However the SP didn't really help matters. They totally dominated the conference with literature, paper sellers (instead of the usual scrum of SWP sellers you had to fight your way through SP sellers on the way out) and interventions and speakers. As said above in the final rally the Socialist Party was mentioned about six times, which I didn't think was appropriate given it was an NSSN event.

The SWP should get fully involved with the NSSN, but on the other hand the SP should make more of an effort to make the NSSN not appear, and I use the word appear, like an SP front.

There also needs to be a lot more work put into building the NSSN locally and regionally and building local NSSN groups. Quite a few successes from the NSSN were mentioned, but to be honest they were all where the SP is strong. So in general it wasn't really the NSSN as an independent force helping to build and win disputes, but the SP.
 
The SWP IS fully involved. The problem is that we're also fully involved in a lot of other stuff. If there are less people at a given NSSN event, its not cos we're downplaying it, its cos we're busy.

As I've said, the vast majority of swp members will be in London this weekend for Marxism. That made a fair few reluctant to go down last weekend, esp in the wake of a bunch of other evenst, and with the STA egm the same day taking out a layer of NUT members etc.
 
Mutley the SWP might be involved but clearly aren't prioritising it. You have sent a minimal amount of people to every conference, not just this one.

And given that the SWP is probably as strong if not stronger in London than anywhere else than mobilising your London members alone would have seen far more numbers, unless the SWP is in even worse state than I thought. Then again a Greenwich and Lewisham wide meeting the other week on "where next for the left" got eight people to it, including people from other groups, so who knows!

The SWP have also failed to build NSSN groups anywhere from what I can see, putting even less effort into doing this than the SP.
 
The SWP is failing across a large section of Unite. Even at the Visteon dispute in Enfield where they had a 'concentrated' presence they ended up boring the arses off many of the Visteon occupiers.

They do the same at Unite UL meetings. When one in particular begins to pontificate a sense of people switching off is almost palpable; it’s almost possible to detect a collective departure of peoples’ will to live.

It’s quite sad to glance around a room of 70 or 80, otherwise very vibrant TU activists, to be met by glazed expression after glazed expression; each one sinking deeper into their own comfort zone of oblivion.

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............................................
 
Whereas all members of SP, WP, PR, IWW or wotever else can simultaneously tap-dance, tell jokes with impeccable timing, analyse workings of the global economy and recount them to someone on the bus in 10 minutes.

This is not a serious conversation - tara.
 
Urbanblues said:
The SWP is failing across a large section of Unite. Even at the Visteon dispute in Enfield where they had a 'concentrated' presence they ended up boring the arses off many of the Visteon occupiers.

They do the same at Unite UL meetings. When one in particular begins to pontificate a sense of people switching off is almost palpable; it’s almost possible to detect a collective departure of peoples’ will to live.

It’s quite sad to glance around a room of 70 or 80, otherwise very vibrant TU activists, to be met by glazed expression after glazed expression; each one sinking deeper into their own comfort zone of oblivion.

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............................................
Click to expand...

You obviously went to the Left meeting in Manchester at the W/E!!

Totally agree with your statement UB!!
 
mutley said:
Whereas all members of SP, WP, PR, IWW or wotever else can simultaneously tap-dance, tell jokes with impeccable timing, analyse workings of the global economy and recount them to someone on the bus in 10 minutes.

This is not a serious conversation - tara.
Click to expand...

It is a serious conversation. We in the Unite left are equally critical of the SP WP etc etc etc. One of the reasons could be because we havent got a 'college' attitude towards left politics and Trade Unionism.

I have my disagreements with the SP , but I have to point out I have ultimate respect for Rob Williams (as long as he/the SP dont stand in next years Unite Leadership election!!) also the brilliant work they did at Lindsey and Visteon. The SP at least have a good grasp of working class/TU politics whereas the SWP are caught in some kind of romantic 'lets all be like it was in the seventies' time warp in that they try to impose how they want things to be without listening or understanding what workers are saying to them.
I wouldnt mind so much but the SWP/IS has really little influence in the 70s either, amongst the organised working class.

Dont say tara Mutley, learn, understand and change your ways and the ways of your organisation.
 
mutley said:
Whereas all members of SP, WP, PR, IWW or wotever else can simultaneously tap-dance, tell jokes with impeccable timing, analyse workings of the global economy and recount them to someone on the bus in 10 minutes.

This is not a serious conversation - tara.
Click to expand...

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........................................
 
The 'tara' was mainly aimed at Urbanblues tbh. Once someone starts on individuals, and their personal traits, in terms that make it quite easy to identify them, its both out of order and politically pointless. I mean I'm sure that whoever Urbanblues is, there are some people who've met him or her, whether politically or elsewhere, and think 'what a boring twat', unless they're some kind of all round entertainer. Is that politically significant? No. So not worth dwelling over.

On the subject of the SWP's looking back to the 70's, one thing that we're tried to do is quite consciously break with that, with the idea of political trade unionism ie using social movement type stuff like STW or the social forums a few years back to reinvigorate the TU movement. Has it worked? Here and there, at times yes. But whatever you think of it, whether you think its a good idea or a bad one, i don't think its just looking back to the 70's.

Have we got lots to learn? Undoubtedly, and I'd concede that some of my comrades don't always recognise that. But I also know swpers from my own area, who've played an absolutely key role in TU battles in the last few years, in Unison for example.
 
mutley said:
The 'tara' was mainly aimed at Urbanblues tbh. Once someone starts on individuals, and their personal traits, in terms that make it quite easy to identify them, its both out of order and politically pointless. I mean I'm sure that whoever Urbanblues is, there are some people who've met him or her, whether politically or elsewhere, and think 'what a boring twat', unless they're some kind of all round entertainer. Is that politically significant? No. So not worth dwelling over.

On the subject of the SWP's looking back to the 70's, one thing that we're tried to do is quite consciously break with that, with the idea of political trade unionism ie using social movement type stuff like STW or the social forums a few years back to reinvigorate the TU movement. Has it worked? Here and there, at times yes. But whatever you think of it, whether you think its a good idea or a bad one, i don't think its just looking back to the 70's.

Have we got lots to learn? Undoubtedly, and I'd concede that some of my comrades don't always recognise that. But I also know swpers from my own area, who've played an absolutely key role in TU battles in the last few years, in Unison for example.
Click to expand...

:D
 
nightbreed said:
I have my disagreements with the SP , but I have to point out I have ultimate respect for Rob Williams (as long as he/the SP dont stand in next years Unite Leadership election!!) also the brilliant work they did at Lindsey and Visteon.
Click to expand...

I have no idea if Rob will be standing in any union election, but I'm interested by your statement above. Is there likely to be a better candidate?
 
nightbreed said:
This could be an interesting debate. Do you think a candidate should be chosen by the broad left or do you think a candidate should be 'imposed' on the left like Socialist Appeal seem to have done with Jerry Hicks?
Click to expand...

Does that Socialist Appeal article not simply refer to Hick's recent candidacy rather than to a future one?

As for your question, I think it depends on circumstances whether a group or candidate should consider themselves bound by the choice of a wider broad left or activist group in a union. Broad Lefts vary considerably in their composition, authority and politics. If a shit broad left picks a shit candidate, I don't see why anyone would pay that much attention. If a strong and politically radical left body picks a strong and radical candidate, then I'd be very inclined to argue that people should step aside.

I don't know enough about the Unite UL to know for sure whether I would advise people to stand aside for its candidate.
 
butchersapron said:
Any reports from this year? Could be very important. I know locally the network is preparing for serious anti-cuts initiatives.
Click to expand...

there will be but, sadly the SU blog's comments have mainly been about the changing role of the swappies (they are a little obsessed with the swp on that board) so far.

One the side issue of the role of the SP (that folk have been raising on this thread), this is from Andy Newman:

"Around the country, it is the Socialist party who have done much of the work in the NSSN. Broadly their engagement is constructive and helpful, though obvioulsy they have their own view on where the NSSN shoudl be going and how to build it, and not everyone may agree with their priorities - but that is democracy. In some regions the NSSN has found it harder to get non-SP people involved, but in other regions there has been greater lift off - and everywhere the SP are genuine in their desire to broaden the NSSN outwards. I am slightly uneasy (on principle) that Bill Mullins* is a political full-timer for the SP, and also plays a central role in NSSN, but Bill is (unlike The SWP’s industrial organisr, Charlie Kimber) a very experienced and capable shop-floor militant, and in practice his contribution has been extremely good."

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=2540

* Bill was the chief organiser in the Birmingham car plant unions way back when....
 
That link and quote is from two years ago. Personally I have found that things have got worse since then in terms of the conferences and SP dominance, but didn't go yesterday, hopefully it went well and was broader.

Looked at the SU site briefly and at least on the front page there didn't seem to be much about the SWP :confused:

The whole site is a sectarian wank fest to be honest and the bloke who runs it, if his posts are anything to go by, seems to have the kind of politics and the kind of character the left doesn't need if it is to turn around the decline.

By the way asked someone else in Lambeth Activists to email NSSN to either join in London SSN or ask to help set one up.
 
butchersapron said:
Any reports from this year? Could be very important. I know locally the network is preparing for serious anti-cuts initiatives.
Click to expand...

Just general reports from SP site:
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/ar...n-urgent-call-for-united-working-class-action

The role of the NSSN in the battle to defend public sector jobs and services
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/ar...n-urgent-call-for-united-working-class-action

Socialist Worker 'summary':
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=21690

Video:
 
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